Living with the un-enlightened

[Nicholas]

Are there any people here from who are surrounded by Christians. Everyone I know, EVERYONE is Christian. Well except my Hare Krishna friends at the yoga society.
How do you deal with all the questions... At this stage everyone wants to know why I gave up meat. It's starting to bother me. I think I will be scorned if someone sees me chanting. For the record, giving up meat was the easiest thing I've done!
I guess everyone thinks I am a Christian. Their ignorance is starting to eat me up. Can you live a 'normal'(by the worlds standards) life and still be a devotee? Should I get a spiritual master?
Thanks

Hare Krishna

[DavyBoy]

Hi Nicholas, Hare Krishna,

The first words that God gave to Moses in the Bible was for man to be veggie, hit them with this Nick, you keep going you are not wrong.best regards David

Haribol, Nicholas.

A devotee has no interest in courting this world's approval, but at the same time, has the respect and admiration of all. There is no need to be "in anyone's face" with your spiritual practices- be discreet about your chanting...as Jesus said, "don't cast your pearls before swine"- you can chant quietly each day BEFORE going to work or school, and you don't need to wear kurta and dhoti to the mall, or shave your head 3 times a day and grow a sikha (unless you really want to).

Do your "shopping" for a spiritual master AS CAREFULLY as you would for a wife. Make sure he has place in the parampara (disciplic succession) from Srila Prabhupada, or one of his Godbrothers (other disciples of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Goswami Maharaj, and that he has recognized stature among genuine devotees.

Blessings and best wishes,

your servant,

Bhuvana.

[Nicholas]

Thanx for your replies. It really helps to know that there are people out there who are as spiritually inclined as I am trying to be. The thing is that the people here don't even know what Hinduism is, not to mention being Krishna conscious. They go to church on Sundays, and the rest of the week forget about spirituality. Most of them think Hindus worship 10 000 Gods and worship statues. It is quite a sad situation here in South Africa come to think of it. The remnants of appartheid are devestating.

Where in the Bible does Jesus instruct Moses about being a vegetarian? I like reading about all religions, we can learn a lot from Jesus.

Hare Krishna

[DavyBoy]

Hare Krishna Nichalas,

Genesis 1:29 is your answer. Hare Bol. David

[DavyBoy]

Hare Krishna Nichalas,

Genesis 1:29 is your answer. Hare Bol. David

[Nicholas]

Thank you David, I appreciate it

Nicholas

[Goran]

Hi,
From your posts I'll presume your young enough to be interested in other's opinions a little more than people tend to be later in life... Well I become veg. at 18 after I went out of home to the university so it was not such a problem. At home, as long as parents were cooking I did not want to give trouble.

Never had problems with anyone after stopping eating meat. Vegetarianism is not so rare any more. When asked about it I said what is basically the truth that the reason is the ethical one: I don't want animals to get killed for my food like many many others don't and there is no reason to take religion or science (nutrition) as an explanation. If you get into that you’ll get just in trouble. If you talk about Moses someone else will take out for example from the new testament instances of Jesus distributing fish, saying that sin gets out of the mouth, and not in.. or that vision of one of the apostles where he was showed that the animals are given for food and that old kosher injunctions do not have to be followed by Christians of non Jewish origins...
The same goes for a lot of “arguments” like the often used one of the banishing of Origen's reincarnation theories in 6th century though Origen never actually believed in reincarnation but only in the preexistence of souls)

Also taking health reasons and arguments that human body is built like non-meet-eater thing will just get you arguments for other positions...

If you do not study and know the Bible better than the ones you are speaking with, or are a scientist and know about science better than your «opponents» it is better not to get there at all unless you just enjoy debates and discussions, but if you don’t like other people recognizing your spiritual dispositions I will suppose you don’t. Besides even if you win in a discussion no one will actually change his/her mind just on that. Especially when the religious ideas and feelings (or political or anything subjective that people tend to identify themselves with)
Such biblical and similar «arguments» usually have an impact only on those sharing your ideals and therefore not being too much critical and objective or to the credulous ones.

Saying that one feels sorry for the animals and can't stand seeing them being killed for food when one can live without should be enough and there is nothing one could argue about as it is a personal opinion, and not a pretension of being an absolute religious o scientific truth.

As for the practice no one has to see what you are doing. There are also some instances where such approach to spiritual life where it is held secret is considered a better approach as being of satvic quality as opposed to the rajsic one that likes to show of...

So do your sadhana in private, don't argue as especially at the beginning as that will just undermine your efforts and won't change their minds. You might find out that in time this problems will just vanish by themselves as you get older and more experienced in both the spiritual and everyday life..

As for the guru – very, very carefully.
Especially on the west when we get in contact with the «exotic» spiritual traditions we tend to get over enthusiastic. Than after 5months or 15 years we start having problems with our decisions. And to some that had left everything behind at some time to dedicate their life to an ideal they are not sure any more what to think about it is a big problem ..
It is a culture, tradition, spiritual practice and a lifestyle that we had not grown with so I would suggest taking a lot of time, years and years to know everything, visit India possibly, know a lot about the Gudya and other vaishnava and non vaishnava traditions, the scriptures, organizations, gurus.. and not only from one sided perspective of the ISKCON or the Gaudya but from the opposite ones too.. This and regular spiritual practice. Only than will you be able to say you know and feel without doubts what you want, that you are sure about what you are doing and you will not find out something 10 years after the initiation that will change your attitude making you regretful and thinking that these years were in vain, or just change for something else like if the initiations are some toys to be purchased on the spiritual bazaar whenever we feel to.

Initiation is a lifetime commitment and not to be taken lightly.

So be the first to do your practices and to study the scriptures, but careful when taking initiations and serious formal commitments. And if you decide to do that be sure you had scrutinized your guru to be better than the CIA, FBI, MI6 and MOSAD together would :D
After that you may accept to be the lowest of the disciples, but first be sure... It is not that you want to get initiation and than just go around looking for someone to give it... Like someone compared to finding a wife. Or for example like if you were to find your future parents for a next birth... but even more than all that as wives go, parents go and dye (or do we), but the real relationship with a genuine guru should be more than that. Don’t get too enthusiastic over books or other people’s words. Everyone in this world has an opinion and everyone thinks he is right. It takes some knowledge, some commune sense, a cold head and a pure heard to try to recognize someone’s status, and even than it is just a little more probable guessing.

And don't think that you will find all your questions answered and life problems solved just by accepting a sampradaya. You might have that impression for a short time, but on long terms only those things you build yourself, your practices and the developing of your personal relationship with Krishna will meter and it is not just all fun and pleasure. Just let the newbie enthusiasm go and give place to the hard work and cold head before even thinking of thanking an initiation.

Well, that’s only my personal opinion of course, we are all different and no one can know exactly what is the best for your spiritual life... chant the Mahamantra and pray...

[honeyflowerservant]

aw, you make it sound so difficult Goran.
Nicholas, i don't know who you are, but take it easy with them, they are in ignorance, which is a pity, try to tune into them somehow i know its hard, but if you can just let them feel like you see the good in them, then the good in them will grow. i should take this advice myself.
and what sort of music do they listen to? there is good music remember, the Beatles and George Harrisson, then even Eurythmics, Pretenders, X-Ray Specs, Kula Shaker, i listen to Coldplay.
initiation shouldn't be scary, if you feel it go for it, it will be arranged in time, so just stay down.

Hare Krishna Nicolas!

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

We are all fallen. Otherwise, we would not be here struggling with the three fold miseries in this material world.

It appears that not so long ago you were eating meat etc. But to your great fortune you found Krishna. So when dealing with those who are still eating meat and do not know Krishna - think back on yourself and how you were not so very long ago.

Have compassion on your fellow fallen souls. The medicine is Krishna Consciousness for our illness but the medicine must be given in doses that can be handled.

Give them a dose of mercy, back off and let them digest it. With each little dose of the medicine their consicousness will raise a bit more.

Don't get frustrated. Some people are not meant to totally get it in this lifetime. But we try anyway and the seeds of Bhakti are planted. Perhaps the devotional creeper will sprout in this life perhaps not. But it will sprout at some point in time.

Helping to plant this little seed in other living entities hearts is our duty of compassion.

Srila Prabhupada had the greatest of compassion for all the fallen souls of this planet. He could have stay in India and spent the remainder of His day there in His own personal devotional service.

But out of great compassion he travel across the ocean at great risk to his own material body. He took this risk to bring us the greatest of gifts. The Holy Names of the Supreme Lord.

Embrace this gift and don't be afraid of what others will think of you. It does not matter. The only person who matters is the Supreme Person - Lord Sri Krishna..

If Srila Prabhupada had thought that we were just too fallen and unenlightened to worry about and he just did not want to deal with us - then what would you be doing today? I dread to think what I would be doing had Prabhupada not been so generous to us all!!!

So have compassion and don't present yourself as being "holier than thou". Give the medicine in doses that can be tolerated. Don't throw everything in their faces all at once. Prabhupada did not do that and nor should we. We have Prabhupada as our example for all things.

Pray for them also. Pray that you can develop the intelligence to help them.

Haribol!
your servant,
Rukmini-Devi dasi

[Goran]

aw, you make it sound so difficult Goran.
:)

Nothing is difficult actually. Chant your mantra, do your practices in private and everything will be ok..

The «difficult» part is about the gurus and organizations only, and I'm saying this because one can see how in time a lot of people get deluded and a lot left their path after the lost their belief. Maybe it is that they had no real spiritual inclinations but just were looking for a surrogate family in the spiritual organizations? I'm sorry to e bothering you, but I'm around long enough and have seen enough to be able to say that today unfortunately real spiritual authorities are all to rare. Not speaking only about the ISKON and all it's recent problems but about almost all the spiritual traditions. I would say that you could have doubts about 80% of «gurus» at least.. and others might be genuine but that does not make them perfect.. And people have (and especially younger I would dare to say) a natural need to find someone worth worshiping and following and therefore not objective enough in this meter. You read all this nice puranic stories and imagine that your saffron or ochre or red or whatever clothed gurus are like those puranic ones, but usually it is not the case. There was a story somewhere on the net about an Indian man who spent his life in various ashrams. He said that after all this years he found that almost none of this «jagadgurus», «avatars», «pure bhaktas» «perfect yogis».. was genuine, that there was a lot of jealousy and moneymaking in the ashrams, that the «gurus» and those close to them lived an easy life on account on the disciples who spent most of the time working for free for them instead of practicing sadhanas etc...

Not that there are no genuine ones at all, just that in most chases they probably are also having opinions, delusions... I don't believe in following anyone blindly or taking anything anyone said being it Prabhupada himself as absolute truth... It takes a little experience and commune sense, hat's all. I don't see anything complicated there.. If you are (speaking about worldly people, not some bal brahmacharis) 14 you’ll probably get «blinded» by a nice looking face only, when you are 40 you’ll look for other things and have other criteria...
When we speak about gurus, organizations, following anyone (blindly) it also takes some time, detachment, common sense, objectivity and experience to be able to see the difference.
So I'm saying just not to be to enthusiastic about that. But as regards spirituality, sadhana, studying and other spiritual disciplines there is no problem or complication at all. All we have to do is to fix our minds on Him in a way or another so every spiritual effort can be only good or better.

If I have to be more direct and not too polite I’m saying here that frankly most of those posing as gurus and spiritual authorities in the world, Vaishnavas included, are just not so great as they think or other thinks abut them if not even real bogus gurus. The same goes for any “absolute religious truths”, we have thousands of gurus and everyone has the “absolute truth”. Even in a community of similar ideals alike the Vaishnava or even Gaudya themselves you have a lot of different opinions, an all are “real truths”.
Its obvious, nothing complicated, just that this like everything in life has to be taken cum grano salis. After the first contact with all this nice spiritual ideas we tend (and have all been at a time) too taken and enthusiastic and believe in almost everything we hear or read, I’m telling him not to be too credulous, not that spirituality itself is such a complicated, difficult or deathly serious thing. Just to relay on himself more than on any gurus, organizations or anything before one is absolutely sure a much as possible about them.

[honeyflowerservant]

i feel very lucky, my Guru is very special to Srila Prabhupada! His name is Srila Bhakti Sundar Govinda Deva-Goswami Maharaj. Actually in the Bhagavad Gita Srila Prabhupada quoted the verse containing this line -

namo vedanta vedyanya

"All glories to (Krishna) the guru of all gurus"

i'm sorry i wasn't able to take this directly from the book as i'm not able to at the moment, but its the best translation i could give, so i hope its ok.

i took inititation from my Guru on Janmastami last year, i am very happy and don't imagine that i will ever feel regretful, that's because i really did follow my heart, i was searching for great love, and i found it. i'm not able to appreciate it fully which is too bad, but i try, so i've been told i have a soft heart, i'm happy to the extreme. material distress is certain what can i do? i'm glad that i've received this special mercy and hope that i really do dererve it. i hope i don't offend too much.

[Nicholas]

i feel very lucky, my Guru is Srila Prabhupada!

It's me(Nicholas) again. I've learned a lot in the last couple of months... And the most important/prominant thing has been that you can't have a spiritual master who is not on this earthly plane... I don't mean to criticize but I know this as true...
The things that could happen if you 'accept' Prabhupada as your Guru are very scary... You may think that you are making contact with him and learning from him as you peruse through the astral plane and beyond, but I've learned this not to be the truth. The are endless beings who are just beyond our realm waiting for a spirit to wander aimlessly into their clutches. We should not attempt to explore the finer worlds without the help of a living(in this world) master.
I thank everyone for their imput in the subject of the guru. I suspect that this is probably the biggest challenge we as humans face as we try to ascend back to God. Luckily I found a very impressive and thorough book that helped me on this matter... I could recommend it to anyone, especially any Western people looking for something that could put things into perspective for them:"The path of the Masters" by Julian Johnson. I am going to temple to meet a real guru from India in a week. I am really excited about this as such things don't happen that often here in South Africa.

As always I will be cautious so don't worry!
Thank you for your love and support.

Hare Krishna

Hare Krishna Nicholas,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

I pray that Lord Krishna blesses you with success in your spiritual path.

May I ask - who is the guru you are meeting soon?

your servant,
Rukmini-Devi dasi


i feel very lucky, my Guru is Srila Prabhupada!

It's me(Nicholas) again. I've learned a lot in the last couple of months... And the most important/prominant thing has been that you can't have a spiritual master who is not on this earthly plane... I don't mean to criticize but I know this as true...
The things that could happen if you 'accept' Prabhupada as your Guru are very scary... You may think that you are making contact with him and learning from him as you peruse through the astral plane and beyond, but I've learned this not to be the truth. The are endless beings who are just beyond our realm waiting for a spirit to wander aimlessly into their clutches. We should not attempt to explore the finer worlds without the help of a living(in this world) master.
I thank everyone for their imput in the subject of the guru. I suspect that this is probably the biggest challenge we as humans face as we try to ascend back to God. Luckily I found a very impressive and thorough book that helped me on this matter... I could recommend it to anyone, especially any Western people looking for something that could put things into perspective for them:"The path of the Masters" by Julian Johnson. I am going to temple to meet a real guru from India in a week. I am really excited about this as such things don't happen that often here in South Africa.

As always I will be cautious so don't worry!
Thank you for your love and support.

Hare Krishna

[honeyflowerservant]

i feel very lucky, my Guru is Srila Prabhupada!

It's me(Nicholas) again. I've learned a lot in the last couple of months... And the most important/prominant thing has been that you can't have a spiritual master who is not on this earthly plane... I don't mean to criticize but I know this as true...
The things that could happen if you 'accept' Prabhupada as your Guru are very scary... You may think that you are making contact with him and learning from him as you peruse through the astral plane and beyond, but I've learned this not to be the truth. The are endless beings who are just beyond our realm waiting for a spirit to wander aimlessly into their clutches. We should not attempt to explore the finer worlds without the help of a living(in this world) master.
I thank everyone for their imput in the subject of the guru. I suspect that this is probably the biggest challenge we as humans face as we try to ascend back to God. Luckily I found a very impressive and thorough book that helped me on this matter... I could recommend it to anyone, especially any Western people looking for something that could put things into perspective for them:"The path of the Masters" by Julian Johnson. I am going to temple to meet a real guru from India in a week. I am really excited about this as such things don't happen that often here in South Africa.

As always I will be cautious so don't worry!
Thank you for your love and support.

Hare Krishna

Jai, i agree that you must have a living Guru, but the Parampara is not a Diksha line, but a Shiksha line, and Srila Prabhupada is still present in His instructions. Guru is actually His instructions, and not His body! Of course, you're correct, we need a Guru who is present here, so that we may receive chastisement, and not speculate. And i followed Srila Prabhupada's instructions that he made in 1973, to take shelter of his as he said, Godbrother, Sridhar Maharaj, who told us to go to Givinda Maharaj. Also, i accept Shiksha from many Gurus within Iskcon, and the Sri Caitanya Sarasvat Math.
Srimad Bhagavatam advises that there are many Shiksha Gurus, the dog is considered the Shiksha Guru of Loyalty, and really, we should consider everyone Guru, because no one is our servant. Of course it would be foolish to follow the orders of everybody and anyone, so if you we are fortunate to find our Guru, we can follow his orders. The concept of Guru is very deep, and is not confined to any society or religion.
hope this finds you well, i'm also curious to know who is this Guru you're meeting.

PS if you are in any doubt about this, try to find a transcript of the opening ceremony of the Sri Chandrodoya Mandir, Mayapur Dham, where Srila Prabhupada openly stated that Srila Sridhar Maharaj was His Shiksha Guru, and Senior Godbrother, and Srila Govinda Maharaja was His Dearmost Son, and that after Srila Prabhupada's departure, we should consult Srila Sridhar Maharaj. This is well documented although certain parties within Iskcon have tried to cover this up to their detriment.

All the best in your advancement,
All Glories to Sri Guru and Sri Gauranga.

[Nicholas]

The guru is a member of Iskcon and I will let you know his name as soon as I am sure... I only heard his name once at a Bhakti yoga meeting and I don't want to post an incorrect name before I am sure. It isn't a bone fide meeting, we are just going to hear him speak. I am sure you are all very used to such visits, but for me it is a ver rare and special thing, living in South Africa and all.
I would like to know something though...When you meditate and focus on your third eye, and think of Krishna...I take it you have had experience of the inner worlds, this is what Prabhupada described in journey to other planets(among other things). Do you probe the unknown alone? Or is there a yogi or a Guru(maybe a Satguru?) with you to guide you? As far as my knowledge goes it is very dangerous not to have a living master present with you.
The thing is that I am not solely talking from a Vedic point of view... I am not even sure if you attempt such things. It is very possible that you find all you need on just chanting, but this too will lead you towards the inner worlds(?). Do you know what I am talking about?
I don't really have anybody to talk to about these things so I am not totally sure how to make myself understandable in this respect.
If you have experienced the astral regions, or have even gone beyond to Brahma, or even beyond that, could you possibly share these experiences with me? Give me advice? I am going to be stuck here for a few more years before I attempt to make my pilgrimage to India and I am really afraid of being misled somehow. I honestly feel that with spiritual matters one can never be too cautious. I always question and attempt to understand before a conform to a way of thinking or living. This is why I have found the Vedic knowledge so immeasurably exciting. It really is a Science which has had me spellbounded by it's depth and beauty to such a degree that I find it perplexing that no-one here even knows about it.
I need to finish my studies first and attempt to do something of note in my field, which is why I am (very) slowly preparing myself for the path I know I must, oneday, undertake. I really can't wait to experience God fully one day, but I am not going to rush into anything. I have eternity to return to Him so a bit of caution might be the wisest thing I feel.

Thank you for all your insights so far. I am really grateful.

Nicholas

[honeyflowerservant]

The guru is a member of Iskcon and I will let you know his name as soon as I am sure... I only heard his name once at a Bhakti yoga meeting and I don't want to post an incorrect name before I am sure. It isn't a bone fide meeting, we are just going to hear him speak. I am sure you are all very used to such visits, but for me it is a ver rare and special thing, living in South Africa and all.
I would like to know something though...When you meditate and focus on your third eye, and think of Krishna...I take it you have had experience of the inner worlds, this is what Prabhupada described in journey to other planets(among other things). Do you probe the unknown alone? Or is there a yogi or a Guru(maybe a Satguru?) with you to guide you? As far as my knowledge goes it is very dangerous not to have a living master present with you.
The thing is that I am not solely talking from a Vedic point of view... I am not even sure if you attempt such things. It is very possible that you find all you need on just chanting, but this too will lead you towards the inner worlds(?). Do you know what I am talking about?
I don't really have anybody to talk to about these things so I am not totally sure how to make myself understandable in this respect.
If you have experienced the astral regions, or have even gone beyond to Brahma, or even beyond that, could you possibly share these experiences with me? Give me advice? I am going to be stuck here for a few more years before I attempt to make my pilgrimage to India and I am really afraid of being misled somehow. I honestly feel that with spiritual matters one can never be too cautious. I always question and attempt to understand before a conform to a way of thinking or living. This is why I have found the Vedic knowledge so immeasurably exciting. It really is a Science which has had me spellbounded by it's depth and beauty to such a degree that I find it perplexing that no-one here even knows about it.
I need to finish my studies first and attempt to do something of note in my field, which is why I am (very) slowly preparing myself for the path I know I must, oneday, undertake. I really can't wait to experience God fully one day, but I am not going to rush into anything. I have eternity to return to Him so a bit of caution might be the wisest thing I feel.

Thank you for all your insights so far. I am really grateful.

Nicholas
Jaya Sri Guru, Jaya Sri Gauranga!
Jaya Gurudev.

Haribol, it must be hard being there having to deal with your thoughts alone. i hope i can manage to be of some assistance, sorry if i go too far, it sometimes feels like i'm walking on a tight rope, so i guess its better to think that i'm already fallen! Hopefully i'll tell you what Gurudev wants you to know, not my mind or false ego! Jai Nitai, Jai Nitai, Jay Nitai, (sorry if i offend now).
an old devotee special friend who left her body some years ago, when i was new at Govinda's, London, used to tell me her realisations, i used to help her get the place ready before the customer's arrived, i miss her, Jaya, well i asked advice because i found it hard to chant.
'sit straight with your legs crossed, early before 7am, lean your back against a wall, chant, you should see a blue dot in your forehead, focus on it and chant', she said.
sometimes i saw it, but one day another devotee happened to tell me 'once, a devotee said to Srila Prabhupada, "i am seeing a blue dot!", to which He answered, "Just keep chanting, it will go away". (hope you find this amusing!)
what i mean is, its great that you are trying, but the advice of our Spiritual Masters is just try to chant and serve as good as you can, give up mental speculation, read Srila Prabhupada's books, hear and watch. Please Him, and He will guide you there if you try sincerely, and are humble and tolerant, some wonderful books to read are The Teachings of Narada Muni, Sri Caitanya - Sri Siksastaka, and listen to Govinda Adi Purasham from the Radha Krishna Temple album, and be happy. :)
All the best with this,
Jaya Srila Prabhupada.

[Nicholas]

You warm my hart!!!
Thank you. I guess the only thing troubling me in my life is that I sit with these thoughts alone... Unfortunately I am by nature very speculative. I know the downfalls of this, but in the past it has proven to be one of my greatest strengths, because their usually isno-one to guide me.

I will sincerely try and focus like you said and with all my power try and do it with the best of intentions(detached).This my in fact be the hardest thing for me, but I will try.

Yours sincerely Nicholas

Hare Krishna

[honeyflowerservant]

Haribol, thanks for your appreciation, just trying to serve best i can, you know its so hard! but we have to try, Prabhupada said hope is essential.

you still haven't said whereabouts you are in SA, so i'm gonna just list all the centres i could find, and of course there's always message boards!

South Africa
Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math
P.O. Box 60183, Phoenix 4068
Kwa-Zulu Natal, South Africa
Phone: (031) 500-1576

Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math
57 Silver Road, Newholmes, Northdale
Pietermaritzburg 3201
Kwa-Zulu Natal, South Africa
Phone: (0331) 912026
Fax: (0331) 947938


Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Ashram,
4464 Mount Reiner Crescent,
Lenasia South, Extension 4,
Johannesburg 1820
Republic of South Africa
Phone: (011) 852-2781 and 211 0973

City:
Cape Town map
Name: ISKCON
Address:
17 Saint Andrews Street
Rondebosch
Phone: +27 (021) 6891529
Postal Code: 7700
Fax: +27 (021) 6891529
Country: South Africa
Email: cape.town@pamho.net


City:
Durban
Name: ISKCON
Address:
50 Bhaktivedanta Swami Circle
Chatsworth map
Mail: P.O. Box 56003
Chatsworth
4030
Phone: +27 (031) 4033328
Postal Code: 4092
Fax: +27 (031) 4034429
Country: South Africa
Email: iskcon.kzn@pamho.net


City:
Lenasia
Name: Bhaktivedanta College of Education and Culture
Mail: P.O. Box 815
State: Gauteng
Phone: +27 (011) 675-0684
+27 (083) 551-1550
Postal Code:1820
Country: South Africa
Email: bcec@pamho.net
Description: The Bhaktivedanta College of Education and Culture was founded in July 1991 in Durban by HG Brhat Mrdanga das under the guidance of HH Giriraj Swami. The college is a forum to discuss and relish the translations and purports of the books of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. The BCEC conducts structured courses on this basis in various countries. Thus far 8 countries have benefited from its services. In 2003, 1012 students internationally have graduated. The courses benefit both experienced and new devotees.


City:
Lenasia
Name: ISKCON
Address:
7971 Capicorn Avenue
Entrance on Nirvana Drive
Exit 9
Mail: P.O. Box 926
State: Gauteng
Phone: +27 (011) 854-1975
+27 (011) 854-7969
Postal Code: 1827
Fax: +27 (011) 854-1975
Country: South Africa
Email: iskconjh@iafrica.com


Hare Krishna Food For Life, Pietermaritzburg, South Africa (http://www.ffl.org/)

[Nicholas]

Wow, thanks for all that... I live near Cape Town so I will visit one of the centres as soon as I can. I must thank you again for all your help and effort.

I haven't received my e-mail on visiting the guru though... I am not surprised however, as a non-devotee is in charge of the Bhakti-society at my University. He is coming tomorrow and now it seems as though I won't be able to see him. It's a shame.

Hare Krishna!

[honeyflowerservant]

Haribol,

hope i can be of more help to you by providing some links -

if you haven't seen this already, this is a database full of Srila Prabhupada's writings - http://vedabase.net/

and some of his Spiriual Masters' writings can be read here:
http://www.vaisnava.com/bvinod.html
http://www.vaisnava.com/bsiddhanta.html

if you are interested please take time to hear these

Talk given at the ISKCON Sri Chandrodaya Mandir (Mayapur, 1973)
By Srila Sridhar Maharaj:
http://www.vaisnava.com/cgi-bin/st/ax.pl?http://www.vaisnava.com/audio/LectureSrilaSridharMaharaj-ChandrodayaMandir1973RQ.mp3

and Conversation with Srila Prabhupada (Navadvipa, 1973) -
http://www.vaisnava.com/cgi-bin/st/ax.pl?http://www.vaisnava.com/audio/SrilaSridharMaharaj-SrilaPrabhupad-Conv1973RQ.mp3

then you may wish to read these
http://www.vaisnava.com/brakshak.html
and
http://www.vaisnava.com/bsundar.html

and there are lots of downloadable books to read here

http://www.scsmath.com/docs/books.html

and more here,
http://www.vaisnava.com/audiobooks.html

there is much more avaialable, but i'm not sure what kind of internet access you have.

hope you are well and happy to get this message,