Book Changes

Which versions of Prabhupada's books do you prefer - Older Original or Newer changed? Please elaborate on your answers.

I am wondering what difference it really makes. You see... my master, yourmaster, has said that books should be thrown in the trash heap. That is because spiritual books do not reveal anything to you except the keeping alive of an illusion (beilief) in your brain cells. The books are ment for the immature and suggestive mind.

AGTSP

Please accept my humble obeisances.

From what i have seen, no violence has been done to Srila Prabhupada's texts by the newer editions, and i am not opposed to reading either. i am aware that this issue is a sore spot for IRM people, but i am not an IRM person, or inclined toward any tangent that detracts my attention from service to my spiritual master, or service to our shaktyavesa avatar (Srila Pabhupada), or Mahaprabhu's mission.

HARE KRISHNA!

your servant,

Bhuvana.

I am wondering what difference it really makes. You see... my master, yourmaster, has said that books should be thrown in the trash heap. That is because spiritual books do not reveal anything to you except the keeping alive of an illusion (beilief) in your brain cells. The books are ment for the immature and suggestive mind.

Bhagavad-Gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam are the literary incarnations of Lord Krishna- they are non-different from Him. i invite you to set aside your illusion of "sophisticated" atheism and respond to the call to devotional service.

HARE KRISHNA!

ys,

Bhuvana.

dear mohan,

I am not an atheist.. however one will never find out in books. Books are a distraction from reality. They feed your illusion and delusion. I have found out these things from mymaster, YOURMASTER, who is no longer mymaster. :D

Just for the record - I am not a part of IRM.

Following is a quite lengthy but extremely interesting conversation on this topic.

Govinda dasi (early disciple of Prabhupada who spent much time in personal service to Him) and Jayadvaita Swami in Honolulu on Jan 19, 2003. And just for the record Govinda dasi is not ritvik or IRM.


Govinda dasi: …that in 1966, ’67 and ’68, Hayagriva spent many, many hours alone with Srila Prabhupada, discussing the different aspects of the editing work. They went over each verse extensively, and Srila Prabhupada was actually quite clear in expressing what he wanted. He, even in the case of legal matters, or something else that he might not know how things worked, he knew what he wanted. So he had an uncanny ability to see through any situation. That’s an understatement, and I’m putting that so that people can appreciate it.

So, when the later Gita was edited, the manuscript had already been gone over, how many times? We don’t really know, I don’t really believe, I mean, joined after Hayagriva. I joined in Frisco as soon as Srila Prabhupada came to Frisco, and then I went back to LA with him. I think, Javadvaita Maharaja, didn’t you say you joined in Boston in…

Jayadvaita Maharaja: New York.

Govinda dasi: …in May of ’68?

Jayadvaita Maharaja: Yes.

Govinda dasi: I thought it was in Boston.

Jayadvaita Maharaja: I came up to Boston right after I joined. I was a devotee in New York for two months.

Govinda dasi: So I was there at your initiation then.

Jayadvaita Maharaja: Yes.

Govinda dasi: So my point here is that already Srila Prabhupada had been working on this, I don’t know how many years before, but Hayagriva had been working on this with Srila Prabhupada, and they went over things. They would discuss things. Hayagriva, he’s no longer present in this world, and I’m not, I’m just pointing out that Hayagriva was the person sent in at that time. And Hayagriva was, interestingly enough, an English professor with a PhD, and his specialty was poetry. And Bhagavad-gita means ‘Song of God,’ it’s a poetic treatise in Sanskrit. So somehow or other by Krsna’s arrangement, a specialist in poetry with a big bushy beard—and he as a rather far-out fellow, but he was a good writer, an excellent writer—was sent to Srila Prabhupada and Srila Prabhupada spent many, many hours with him.

Now, for example there’s a simple change, “the Blessed Lord said.” That’s been removed, because you [Jayadvaita Maharaja] say that the original manuscript didn’t have that. But how do we know that in the two years, and the hours that he [Srila Prabhupada] spent with Hayagriva discussing things, that they didn’t discuss this point, that ‘the Blessed Lord’ sounds better than ‘the Supreme Personality of Godhead,’ or so many points that we really don’t know. We can’t possibly know; we weren’t there. We don’t really know that. We just know that Bhagavad-gita As It Is has, in 1968, ‘the Blessed Lord said.’ I’m taking that as a very simple, innocuous example. And we don’t really know where it came from. You [Jayadvaita Maharaja] say that you have the original manuscript, but yet the person who worked with the original manuscript isn’t here anymore, he’s deceased. I mean Hayagriva; I don’t mean Srila Prabhupada. I don’t refer to Srila Prabhupada like that. And so I don’t know whether or not… that’s one question.

Now, how do we know that… Srila Prabhupada went over things very thoroughly. He went over this drawing. He corrected me, he watched what I was doing, many things. Teachings of Lord Caitanya, we also worked on the drawings for that while we were in Los Angeles, and I’m bringing this up because there’s a similar change in this regard. Teachings of Lord Caitanya originally had five or six black-and-white drawings. In those days we couldn’t afford to print color. So, Gourasundar and I did five or six black-and-white drawings, and Srila Prabhupada very meticulously went over them. He told us exactly what to put. I had never been in the Jagannath temple, I had never even been to India, and I wasn’t allowed in anyway. And he told me everything that was inside, where the pujari sits, Jagannath was up on this thing, it was dark all around—he gave me specific instructions on how to do that drawing; that drawing and all the rest that are in there.

So that’s how meticulous he was. I didn’t work with Hayagriva; Srila Prabhupada was busy working with Hayagriva. I was typing his letters, editing his letters, cooking his chapattis and stuff like that. But Srila Prabhupada was working on his books, OK? Now, those drawings were all removed from the subsequent edition of Teachings of Lord Caitanya, the drawings that Srila Prabhupada personally oversaw. He was quite distressed by this. He said, “Why have you removed those drawings? I had those done. Why did you remove them?” And they put some very nicely, highly beautiful, technically accurate paintings in there. Being an artist, I can relate to this from the artistic point of view. Also the Krsna Book, the artistic paintings, the early paintings were technically not as proficient as the ones that were later substituted for the early ones. But Srila Prabhupada was very distraught. He said, “Why did you remove those early paintings? They were full of bhakti.”

OK, this is my point. Number one, he made corrections according… for two years, before we were even around, Maharaja and I, I don’t know, I was in college and he was doing… I think you’re younger than me, so you were probably in high school, I don’t know. So basically, we weren’t around. While this is going on, a lot of things could have been occurring between Hayagriva and Srila Prabhupada that we don’t know about; that we can’t possibly know about. We just can’t know about them. However, given the way he managed the artists and the way the artwork was done, and the way the editing work was done later on, I would say he probably had a hand in it.

OK, there’s another point. That’s my point as far as that’s concerned. Srila Prabhupada had a Midas touch: everything he touched turned to bhakti—even us. We basically had… we were kids, green behind the ears, and without a whole lot of punya, actually. A lot of us were taking drugs, a lot of us… I was in my fourth year of college, and I left school and met him three months later, and I felt he saved my life because I saw no meaning in anything. And I’m sure most of us feel the same way, wherever we came from. Srila Prabhupada had the Midas touch. His Midas touch—everybody knows who Midas was, the king that turned everything to gold. So, he infused, he oversaw the production of everything that happened, and he infused the artists and editors with his own bhakti. It was like a fever; it was wonderful, it was actually the best time in my life. Putting out those seventeen volumes of Caitanya-caritamrta and working around the clock; there’s probably nothing that you’ll look back on in your life that was more beautiful. It was like Srila Prabhupada’s divine presence permeated us all. It permeated our work. And you know, I look at some things that I did; I look at that painting above Srila Prabhupada’s head right there, and I don’t even think I did that painting. I look at that one, and I think, “I did that?” [note: several of Govinda dasi’s oil paintings hang in Srila Prabhupada’s room where the meeting is being held] Srila Prabhupada’s mood infused us, it gave us the ability… What is that verse in Caitanya-caritamrta, that the lame can cross mountains and the blind can see? He gave us, we were warm bodies, his energy came through us, and we did incredible works.

Devotee: You painted that painting? [pointing to the painting of Sri-Sri Pancha-Tattva behind Srila Prabhupada.]

Govinda dasi: Yes, and when I painted that, there was an incident where Srila Prabhupada let me know… The whole time I painted it, I wanted to paint it so that he would like it so much, that he would touch Lord’s Caitanya’s feet. I never told him that. Years later, years later, it used to be right here. He liked having it right here [next to his desk]. I was standing at the door, he came over to the painting, put his head on Lord’s Caitanya’s lotus feet, and left for the airport. And I thought, “Oh, he has satisfied my desire.” I mean, there are the experiences that we had with Srila Prabhupada. These are real experiences. Like Satyahit said, he used to fall down, he was so overwhelmed by Srila Prabhupada’s divine presence. He opened our hearts completely.

So without getting too far off, my point here is that he guided us from within, and Srila Prabhupada didn’t want things changed. He was unhappy when we didn’t respect what he had done, and when they removed the pictures, he complained about it. But it was never corrected. To this day, I don’t think anybody even has those pictures except me, because I’ve got all the early books. So that’s one of my second points, so far as the human aspect of this, and the historical aspect of this.

There’s one other thing that’s significant here. Srila Prabhupada guided us on all our drawings. Jadurani and I used to sit in his front room, and Srila Prabhupada sat in his bedroom. There was an arched window between, and he walked in and out of the room while we were painting. And this is how close a contact the writers and the artists had with Srila Prabhupada in the early days. We were very, very… a nuclear family, almost. Srila Prabhupada would pose for us sometimes. He would walk in and he would pose. Sometimes he posed for Krsna, to give us an idea how the flute and everything, the position. He posed for Hiranyakasipu with his arms up, and he posed for Nrsimhadeva at least once a day, that was his favorite pose. He would walk in and roar, and say, “I’m jumping out of the pillar!” [laughter] Honestly! Anyone who was there can tell you this. This is what the early times were like. I’m just painting this picture so you can understand where I’m coming from.

Once in the Prahlad book, which was a children’s book that we were working on at the time, he told me to paint some demons that were poking at Prahlad while he was sitting in a boiling vat of oil. Well, I’d never seen a demon except in a comic book, so I got one of Rayarama’s comic books and managed to come up with demons, with tails, and skinny and horns, stuff like that. I kind of made them up. And then I took it to show it to him, because he approved everything. That’s my point. He approved the writing, he approved the artwork. He looked at them, and said, “Yes, that is very good. There are such demons in Africa and other places, in the jungles.” And I was in my fourth year of college; educated, right? And I said, “Oh Srila Prabhupada, I didn’t know that,” meaning that I didn’t know that such things existed on our planet, because science had taught me everything that there was. And Srila Prabhupada looked at me and said, “There are many things you do not know.”

And I think that’s the essence of how we should remain in his presence: there are many things we don’t know. Srila Prabhupada is the one who actually knows. He’s the one who actually guided all of this, in what: eleven years, how many times did he travel around the world, ten or twelve times? And in eleven years, he printed how many books? He did phenomenal things. We didn’t do this. None of us did this. We weren’t the doers; we were warm bodies who were willing to do what he wanted us to do. And his divine presence came through his books, and they were transcendental. He told everyone they’re transcendental: “Read my books. They’re transcendental.” So he accepted his books in 1972 as transcendental and perfect, and he lectured on them. He lectured on almost every verse of the Bhagavad-gita As It Is over ten years’ time. Both of these Gitas: this one, [the “purple Gita”] which is almost unchanged, the translation; and this one, [the Macmillan Gita] which is much fatter and has more. He lectured on these for ten years, over ten years. And he only requested two or three small changes. And believe me, if he didn’t like something, he could break up a lecture and let you know it. He certainly laid into Dr. Radha-Krsna at least a dozen times that I can think of.

So, Srila Prabhupada said that they were transcendental then, and now those same books are not good enough? Now they’re not transcendental? OK, this is one point. I consider that they’re still transcendental. And of course we discussed the authority issue: that Jayadvaita Maharaja has said that Srila Prabhupada did not specifically give him the permission to…

All books are distractions and boring. The reason they are boring is because they are dead material. They are symbols.

One lie that prabhupada taught was that the books, idols, words and so on are non-different from krishna. He didn't mean to lie. He was just repeating, like a bird, what he had heard from dumb gurus.

It is obvious that books and words (mantras) are symbols only. The teaching otherwise is only a trick to get stupid and suggestive minds hooked on a religion for the benefit of sly gurus, leaders and authorities.

You all know that this is true. You are just spending month after month trying to have an insight into how the lie is true. That will never happen. The first insight is correct....that that teaching is not true.

Mymaster, YOURMASTER, who is no longer mymaster, has instructed me well.

thus sayeth the lord of hosts.

You need to have a guru, may it be lord krishna himself, then you need to honor the book like "The Gita", as in that way Krishna speaks to you directly.

Yes, I agree that that would be the best way to study or be interested in a religion. To do without the authorities alltogether. Just find out on your own.
When a guru enters the picture things become a little fuzzy.

Those poor weak and worthless gurus! They should be out there in the world working and making the world a better place by their honest efforts. Instead they strive to gain power and knive to have control over many minds. Their satisfaction is power and the attention they get from suggestive minds. Therefore they are valueless to all human beings and should be ignored for their own sake. If they are ignored then they will have to get honest jobs and that would be good for them. But they like to have weak minded people bow to them and give them things. They like to be treated special. They are like women that way. (sorry ladies, no offense intended). They are upset when their ego supports, their worshipers, leave them. Gurus are the worst trash to be found. All of them, every one that has ever existed.

So Yes, do something on your own. But remember that books (scriptures) are symbols concocted by a guy in a mud hut who believed that the sun was closer than the moon. So it is a good idea to throw out the books and just be serious without any crutches at all.

you are crazy (yourmaster's student), this is the effect of kaliyuga I can see clearly on you.

[Nitaipada Maharaja]

Hare Krsna! All glories to Srila Prabhupada and all Vaisnavas. Please accept my humble obeisances and blessings. I pray that this meets you well and in the service/mercy of Sri Guru and Sri Gauranga.

It is not a matter of which version we are applying to our lives that matters, whether they are Srila Prabhupada's original works or one of the changed versions, the issue in my humble opinion is that Srila Prabhupada did not want his works changed without direct authorization. Since it is a fact that Srila Prabhupada is no longer with us, this direct authorization can not be aquired, but the fact does remain that any changes that needed to be conducted were indeed done prior to his departure.

In my opinion, the original works are the best of what Srila Prabhupada gave to us. Since he did authorize his disciples to continue on, adding additional Vaisnava works, the translation and expansion of the Vaisnava sastras become more and more available to us. The Srimad Bhagavatam has been completed, recently the Caitanya Bhagavata has been added, as has the Sri Brhad-Bhagavatamrita, works that Srila Prabhupada and the Acharyas have extensively quoted from.

As Srila Prabhupada taught us that time, place and circumstance is important in any endeavor, the continued writings come to us in their own time and through the medium that Sri Krsna Himself chooses. Srila Prabhupada encouraged all his disciples to continue in their education, now, 27 years later, we are beginning to witness the fruits of that desire of his. Many of the older disciples of Srila Prabhupada are highly educated, and wonderfully are bestowing that knowledge on the newer generation of devotees that are coming into the movement.

It is not whether one accepts or does not accept the versions that are available, the matter of the fact is that one applies the simple truths that are revealed through the written word. If one follows Sri Guru and Sri Gaurnaga, then one's life becomes sublimb, if one simply follows the instructions given by Srila Prabhupada of following the four regulations, chanting the Holy Names and living a simple life, then one will attain beyond belief the spiritual advancement that one's heart desires.

Your eternal servant;
Nitaipada

[Nitaipada Maharaja]

Hare Krsna! All glories to Srila Prabhupada! Please accept my humble obeisances and blessings. I pray that this meets you well and in the service/mercy of Sri Guru and Sri Gauranga.

Dearest "Yourmaster's Student":

I would like to know what you base your opinions upon to come up with such statements. How is it that all that we base our believe upon, as followers of Srila Prabhupada is nothing more than "trash" to you and the imprisonment of illusion and distraction from the facts of spiritual advancement?

Please enlighten us as to your learning, from where you have learned these things and how you yourself have proven them to be infact truth, since what I have read of your posts stands in opposition to the teachings of sastra and the Acharyas. Please provide to us your qualifications to make such statements, for as you condemn those that sit on the asana, you yourself portray yourself as a self appointed Guru of sorts.

I indeed eagerly await your explanations.

Your eternal servant;
Nitaipada Maharaja

[honeyflowerservant]

All books are distractions and boring. The reason they are boring is because they are dead material. They are symbols.

One lie that prabhupada taught was that the books, idols, words and so on are non-different from krishna. He didn't mean to lie. He was just repeating, like a bird, what he had heard from dumb gurus.

It is obvious that books and words (mantras) are symbols only. The teaching otherwise is only a trick to get stupid and suggestive minds hooked on a religion for the benefit of sly gurus, leaders and authorities.

You all know that this is true. You are just spending month after month trying to have an insight into how the lie is true. That will never happen. The first insight is correct....that that teaching is not true.

Mymaster, YOURMASTER, who is no longer mymaster, has instructed me well.

thus sayeth the lord of hosts.

:?:

[honeyflowerservant]

Which versions of Prabhupada's books do you prefer - Older Original or Newer changed? Please elaborate on your answers.

the only original one i have is the Bhagavad Gita from 1972, this includes many of Jadurani's beautiful paintings. Otherwise i have no choice but to read the edited versions, but i feel hopeful that i am being guided to see the truth within, nevertheless.

my response would be 'it would be nice if i could read the originals, unfortunately, i haven't much choice.'

i've got a case of 500 cassettes of Srila Prabhupada's classes that are very old, so i am confident that those atleast are unedited.

Jaya Srila Prabhupada.

[honeyflowerservant]

http://krishna.org/ISKCON/BookChanges/

Devotees no longer have peaceful minds?
Bg 6.27 Original Version
"...The yogi whose mind is fixed on Me verily attains the highest happiness. By virtue of his identity with Brahman, he is liberated; his mind is peaceful, his passions are quieted, and he is freed from sin."


Revised & Enlarged Version
"...The yogi whose mind is fixed on Me verily attains the highest perfection of transcendental happiness. He is beyond the mode of passion, he realizes his qualitative identity with the Supreme, and thus he is freed from all reactions to past deeds."

http://krishna.org/ISKCON/BookChanges/

Devotees no longer have peaceful minds?
Bg 6.27 Original Version
"...The yogi whose mind is fixed on Me verily attains the highest happiness. By virtue of his identity with Brahman, he is liberated; his mind is peaceful, his passions are quieted, and he is freed from sin."


Revised & Enlarged Version
"...The yogi whose mind is fixed on Me verily attains the highest perfection of transcendental happiness. He is beyond the mode of passion, he realizes his qualitative identity with the Supreme, and thus he is freed from all reactions to past deeds."

That is quite the change, isn't it? Interesting. There are many more. In fact in some of the books such as the Caitanya Caritamrta - the "changer" does not even remember how many changes he made!

I had only read the original versions of Prabhupada's books and one day a few years back I came across the edited Bhagavad-gita As It Is in a used book store. I honestly thought that only the cover was different so I bought it and brought it home.

It did not take me long to realize as I was reading it that verses and purorts had been tampered with so I pulled out my old copy and did some quick comparing and found out exactly that was indeed what had happened!

I went back to my original copy.

A devotee pointed out a while back that Srila Prabhupada signed the original copy (right after the preface it is there) and when someone signs their work that means they have approved of it and it is finished.

Well, the publishers are still using that signature even in the edited versions! Prabhupada did not sign those versions - he did not put his stamp of approval on them.

Another thing to point out is that Prabhupada used those books daily in his own personal reading and also in his lectures and classes. So if he used them as they are why shouldn't we?

Hare Krishna

[honeyflowerservant]

All Glories to Sri Guru and Sri Gauranga

i am not sure what the reasons are, perhaps the souls in the '60s and '70s were more pure, so they were able to read more nectar. Now it has to be revised, for the less fortunate people of this age. i know that Srila Prabhupada gave Hrdyananda Swami the permission to edit his books, so it i put my trust in his order.

i am a little downhearted though, because i recently purchased a set of Srimad Bhagavatam from a San Kirtana distributer in Iskcon, i gave her 50 pounds, i decided to unwrap each Srimad Bhagavad Canto Volume as i read it in order, but the other day we needed to look up the story of Vrkasura as it was written in the Tenth Canto, i unwrapped the Tenth Canto, only to find that it is now Krishna Book, no Sanskrit verses, translations, purports, the Tenth Canto contains Krishna, The Supreme Personality of Godhead, which was the first book i read, and i still have the original Krishna Book given to me for a small donation that made me get here, its very special to me. is it ok to be attached to the first Book in this way?

also, i then realised to my horror, really, horror, that there is no 11th and 12th Canto :( yes, i know that Srila Prabhupada did not have time to translate these Cantos, but He gave permission for someone to do it, so it was his Will. Why is it now that these Cantos are being withheld?

dandabats,

Madhupriya Devidasi

[vespertine212]

Devotees no longer have peaceful minds?

The devotees that get disturbed by this issue obviously don't...

Devotees no longer have peaceful minds?

The devotees that get disturbed by this issue obviously don't...

Hare Krishna,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All gloriest to Srila Prabhupada.

Let me see if I understand you correctly. Nobody should be bothered by the fact that some disciples believe they know better than the spiritual master - pure devotee - and change the words in his writings. This in some cases does change the flavor of the writings enough to change the teachings.

But you question what you percieve as changes in the teachings of our sampradaya by Srila Prabhupada. And in your other thread posts you seem quite disturbed by these supposed changes.

your servant,
Rukmini-Devi dasi

[vespertine212]

You haven't shown an example of editing which changed Prabhupada's teachings. The BG verse about the yogi is not a change in teaching, it is a change in style of translation. Either version expresses the same conclusion. I think it's a little silly to get very worked up about such a change.

The concern I brought up in another thread about the changes in teachings on siddha pranali are much more substancial, and much more connected to the core teachings of Gaudiya Vaisnavism.

If Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati and Srila Prabhupada can change a traditional practice of Gaudiya Vaisnavism, extensively preached and practiced by Bhaktivinoda Thakura, then maybe the precedent of their line is change. It seems only right that Prabhupada's disciples continue to change things, just as their guru did.

Srila Prabhupada spoke so many heavy things against changing things, but practically both he and his guru changed so many things in their disciplic succession.

[vespertine212]

Just for reference, here are some changes in the practices instituted by Srila Prabhupada, which differ from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati (from an essay by Sripad Bhakti Vidagdha Bhagawat Maharaja):

The preaching and delivering system of your Prabhupada comes from different places rather than just the mission of Srila Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura. We do not want to criticize him because we know him better than you, but it will be difficult for you to accept this as the truth.

1. The maha-mantra in ISKCON is always sung as a full mantra. You can never chant it half and then the other half. It is clearly coming from the idea of the babajis and other groups that entered the Gaudiya Mission (i. e. Puri Goswami or Srila Ananta Vasudeva Prabhu and Srila Audolomi Maharaja's line) and your Gurudeva taught you to follow in their footsteps. If you say that they deviated does that mean that your Gurudeva took ideas from deviated persons?

2. Keeping peacock feathers on Mahaprabhu can only be seen in the temple established by Srila Ananta Vasudeva Prabhu (Puri dasa mahasaya) at Radha-Kunda and in prominent gauranga-nagari sampradayas or one of the thirteen pseoudo-sects. We can clearly see this in the temples established by Srila Swami Maharaja. Where has this come from?

3. Srila Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura clearly said that Adwaita Acarya Prabhu never had a beard and used to keep clean shaven. But the bauls (one of the thirteen apasampradayas) wanted to make him a baul and put a beard on his face. On the Deities at the Yoga-Pitha or Srivas Angan as well as any other Gaudiya Math temple you will never find a beard on Adwaita Acarya's face. But at the Mayapura ISKCON temple as well as other temples (in San Diego and Hawaii) we can see Adwaita Acarya with a beard. Will you say that your Gurudeva was following the bauls?

4. One prominent disciple of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura gave the brahma-gayatri to a lady disciple. Srila Prabhupada later wrote an article in the weekly Gaudiya entitled bhai-sahajiya (brother sahajiya). Most recently the Santikunja at Haridwara was preaching that anyone can get the brahma-gayatri initiation. Can I simply ask you from which line your gurudeva get the idea of initiating lady disciples into the brahma-gayatri?

5. The chanting of the Panca-Tattva mantra at the beginning of each round does not come from Srila Prabhupada, he taught his disciples to chant it in a different way. From where did your Prabhupada get this?

6. Srila Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura accepted that the border of Mayapura is a small canal called gurgure (just before one approaches the Yoga-Pitha temple from the ISKCON temple side you will find a canal crossing the road and that is the border of Sri Mayapura according to Srila Prabhupada on his commentary in the Caitanya Bhagawata). Long after his disappearance he revealed in the heart of Srila B.D. Madhava Maharaja that near the confluence of the Ganga and Saraswati rivers Ishodyan is situated which is part of Antardwipa, Sridham Mayapura. The present Ishodyan was revealed by Srila B.D. Madhava Maharaja which was also supported by Srila B.R. Sridhara Maharaja and your gurudeva established his world headquarters of ISKCON in that part of Mayapura, which was not accepted by his gurudeva but was revealed by his godbrother. Why could not he take Srila Prabhupada straight?

7. Srila Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura taught us how to worship the Deity in the temple. In Gaudiya Math temples his orders are mostly followed. They offer bhoga five times a day and aratiks three times a day on regular days . But in your ISKCON temples we find a different system which is more likely to the system of the caste goswamis and other temples in Vrindavana who follow the worship according to the eight-yama pastimes of the Lord. We like that system and also appreciate it, but our question is - from where did your gurudeva learn this kind of worship? Did he take siksa from the caste goswamis?

8. Kirtana with the harmonium was prohibited by Srila Prabhupada. Only in the temple of Srila B.H. Bon Maharaja this was seen before. We are not criticizing him because we know that he is an exalted vaisnava. He was a qualified acarya and has the right to introduce any musical instrument into his temple. Your Prabhupada also introduced it in his ISKCON temples. Did he learn that from Srila Bhakti Hriday Bon Maharaja?

9. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura instructed us to worship Sri Sri Guru Gauranga-Gandharvika-Giridhari . In all the temples established by him we find Sriman Mahaprabhu and Sri Sri Radha-Krsna. The mangala-arati and other arati songs specifically written by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura and Srila Prabhupada follow in their footsteps. Whereas in your ISKCON temples there are different combinations of Deities and different kinds of songs are recommended for mangal-aratik which are not considered as mangal-aratik songs. Do you think this is a deviation or not?

10. Srila Prabhupada ordered his disciples to print and distribute books of the previous acaryas and specially those of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura. He did not write many books himself because he thought it unnecessary, whereas you clearly state that your gurudeva instructed you to print, publish and read his books only. Does that mean that he thought that the books of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura are less valuable than his?

11. Srila Prabhupada or his disciples never recommended a new devotee to chant Harinama on a mala without being properly initiated by a guru. According to the commentary by Srila Viswanatha Cakravarti Thakura, on Srimad Bhagavatam Sixth Canto (the case of Ajamila) it will only generate a great offense (gurvava jna). Your Prabhupada began this in ISKCON. Where did this idea come from?

12. In his mission Srila Prabhupada strictly prohibited the ladies from serving even in the kitchen where sannyasis, brahmacaris and vanaprasthas were living. He never allowed any women (with the exception of two elderly women disciples of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura that sometimes used to cook only for Srila Prabhupada) to serve the Math residents in any way possible. Later on a few Gaudiya Math acaryas allowed some women into the kitchen, and your Prabhupada is no exception. Many times young Western ladies used to serve him including to cut his hair...

These are a few of the examples on how your Prabhupada differs from the teachings and practices of Srila Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura. His Mayapura Dham, his process of Deity worship, his nama-sankirtan, his book publications, his personal conducts, his Deity installations, his process of initiating disciples all differs from his Gurudeva.

[vespertine212]

And for more reference, here is an abreviated list of changed teachings given by Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura:

* The novel presentation of parampara, the disemphasis on diksha-parampara.
* The introduction of brahma-gayatri and upanayana-samskara as a part of Gaudiya Vaishnava practice.
* The promotion of consideration of brahminhood without consideration of birth.
* The adoption of saffron clothes and sannyasa-ashram (that to an extent followed the model of Sri-sampradaya).
* The adoption of a monastic model in which renunciates were the center of the devotional community (that to an extent followed the example of Ramakrishna Mission).
* The promotion of varnashrama-dharma.
* Some teachings concerning raganuga-bhakti and meditation on siddha-deha.
* Teachings on the origin of the soul as something else than beginningless bondage.
* An aggressive and confrontational style of preaching that often slighted others, including other Vaishnavas.
* The (mis)use of the word "sahajiya" in describing those who held differing views.

Bhaktisiddanta Maharaja and Srila Prabhupada are pure devotees who always taught according to guru, sadhu and sastra.

Who are we to question their methods?

I find this distasteful and will not indulge you on this topic. Perhaps someone else will feel differently.

[vespertine212]

Who are you to question anyone's methods? Are you someone to question the BBT's methods? Obviously you think you are.

But when Prabhupada changes something you automatically skip all logic and just turn a blind eye? This is weird thinking. Do you want to be humble and dogmatic or do you want to thinking critically and risk offending devotees?

Yes, I do question the BBt's methods. They are not on the same level as Srila Prabhupada and have no right to change his books.

Prabhupada did not change anything. If you would read his books and listen to his teachings with an open heart you would see this is true.

There aren't too many Prabhupada disciples on this forum so perhaps another forum would bear more fruits for you in the form of discussion on this topic because for myself this is it. I find it offensive and distasteful.

I won't sit here and debate with you whether my spiritual master was right/wrong or otherwise.

Hare Krishna

[vespertine212]

Yes, I do question the BBt's methods. They are not on the same level as Srila Prabhupada and have no right to change his books.

If Srila Prabhupada is the best, most authorized, perfect guru, why does he have so many cheating disciples? I can't understand how people don't consider attacks on Prabhupada's disciples as a direct attack on Prabhupada. We should respect Prabhupada's disciples as his representatives.

Prabhupada did not change anything. If you would read his books and listen to his teachings with an open heart you would see this is true.

Just because you keep telling yourself this over and over again does not make it true. Sorry. How do you respond to the post I made on the changes Prabhupada made???

I'm not saying that anything Prabhupada did was bad. I'm comfortable with his changes. I'm also comfortable with Srila Bhaktisiddhanta's changes. But why do we have to fool ourselves and pretent those changes don't exist?

I'm quite comfortable with the very minor changes of the BBT.

[Flower Child]

Devotees don't respond to such because if they do they will help you continue to commit offenses and in doing that they are implicated in the offensives.

[vespertine212]

I want to appologize for offending anyone. For my own purification, can you point out to me what I said that was offensive?

[honeyflowerservant]

Devotees no longer have peaceful minds?

The devotees that get disturbed by this issue obviously don't...


Devotees aren't disturbed by their minds.
i don't claim to be a devotee, so i can say honestly that i'm disturbed, full of anger, and frustration, at people like you who just want to pick fights and insult other people because you have nothing better to do.

[honeyflowerservant]

Who are you to question anyone's methods? Are you someone to question the BBT's methods? Obviously you think you are.

But when Prabhupada changes something you automatically skip all logic and just turn a blind eye? This is weird thinking. Do you want to be humble and dogmatic or do you want to thinking critically and risk offending devotees?


Congratulations, you just insulted a great disciple of Srila Prabhupada Himself. There are many disciples not all are worthy of praise and respect as much as Rukmin Devi Dasi.
btw when did SRILA Prabhupada change something? Are you claiming that you can see Him everywhere and behind every action?
Are you so blinded that you didn't read the part where Sri Krishna said He doesn't want blind followers?
Why can't we question the GBC? Have you read any of Srila Prabhupada's Lilas?
Risk offending devotees? A devotee doesn't take offense.

[Flower Child]

I'm quite comfortable with the very minor changes of the BBT.

NOT ME!! Check this out! the first of each quote is the original and the second is the edited. the comments done about the changes is by Das devi dasi.

Original Cc Adi Lila Chapter 5, Text 78

Text 78
yadyapi kahiye tanre krsnera 'kala' kari
matsya-kurmady-avatarera tinho avatari

SYNONYMS
yadyapi-although; kahiye-I say; tanre-to Him; krsnera-of Lord Krsna; kala-part of the part; kari-making; matsya-the fish incarnation; kurma-adi-the tortoise incarnation and others; avatarera-of all these incarnations; tinho- He; avatari-the original source.

TRANSLATION
Although Ksirodakasayi Visnu is called a kala of Lord Krsna, He is the source of Matsya, Kurma and the other incarnations.
Revised Cc Adi Lila Chapter 5, Text 78

TEXT 78
yadyapi kahiye tanre krsnera 'kala' kari
matsya-kurmady-avatarera tinho avatari

SYNONYMS
yadyapi-although; kahiye-I say; tanre-to Him; krsnera-of Lord Krsna; kala-part of the part; kari-making; matsya-the fish incarnation; kurma-adi-the tortoise incarnation and others; avatarera-of all these incarnations; tinho- He; avatari-the original source.

TRANSLATION
Although Karanodakasayi Visnu is called a kala of Lord Krsna, He is the source of Matsya, Kurma and the other incarnations.


[Who is correct? Srila Prabhupada or Jayadvaita? Read Srila Prabhupada's purport to Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.3.2 and 1.3.5 and decide for yourself. But maybe first you'd better verify that the Srimad-Bhagavatam you're reading is the original, unrevised edition.]

Original Cc Adi Lila Chapter 5, Text 80

TEXT 80
sei purusa srsti-sthiti-pralayera karta
nana avatara kare, jagatera bharta

SYNONYMS
sei-that; purusa-the Personality of Godhead; srsti-sthiti-pralayera-
of creation, maintenance and annihilation; karta-creator; nana-various; avatara-incarnations; kare-makes; jagatera-of the material world; bharta-maintainer.

TRANSLATION
That purusa [Ksirodakasayi Visnu] is the performer of creation, maintenance and destruction. He manifests Himself in many incarnations, for He is the maintainer of the world.
Revised Cc Adi Lila Chapter 5, Text 80

TEXT 80
sei purusa srsti-sthiti-pralayera karta
nana avatara kare, jagatera bharta

SYNONYMS
sei-that; purusa-the Personality of Godhead; srsti-sthiti-pralayera- of creation, maintenance and annihilation; karta-creator; nana-various; avatara-incarnations; kare-makes; jagatera-of the material world; bharta-maintainer.

TRANSLATION
That purusa [Karanodakasayi Visnu] is the performer of creation, maintenance and destruction. He manifests Himself in many incarnations, for He is the maintainer of the world.


[See note above.]


Original Cc Madhya Lila Chapter 22, Text 43

TEXT
samsara bhramite kona bhagye keha tare
nadira pravahe yena kastha lage tire

SYNONYMS
samsara bhramite-wandering throughout the universe; kona bhagye-by some good fortune; keha tare-someone crosses the ocean of nescience; nadira pravahe-in the flow of the river; yena-just as; kastha-wood; lage-sticks; tire-on the bank.

TRANSLATION
There are unlimited conditioned souls who are bereft of Lord Krsna's service. Not knowing how to cross the ocean of nescience, they are scattered by waves, time and tide. However, some are fortunate to contact devotees and by this contact they are delivered from the ocean of nescience, just as a log floating down a river accidentally washes upon the bank.

[No purport given]
Revised Cc Madhya Lila Chapter 22, Text 43

TEXT 43
samsara bhramite kona bhagye keha tare
nadira pravahe yena kastha lage tire

SYNONYMS
samsara bhramite-wandering throughout the universe; kona bhagye -by some good fortune; keha tare-someone crosses the ocean of nescience; nadira pravahe-in the flow of the river; yena-just as; kastha-wood; lage-sticks; tire-on the bank.

TRANSLATION
The conditioned souls are wandering throughout the different planets of the universe, entering various species of life. By good fortune one of these souls may somehow or other be delivered from the ocean of nescience, just as one of the many big logs in a river may by chance reach the bank.

PURPORT
There are unlimited conditioned souls who are bereft of Lord Krsna's service. Not knowing how to cross the ocean of nescience, they are scattered by the waves of time and tide. However, some are fortunate to contact devotees, and by this contact they are delivered from the ocean of nescience, just as a log floating down a river accidentally washes upon the bank.


[In this instance, Srila Prabhupada's original translation has become a purport, and Jayadvaita has come up with his own translation.]


Original Cc Madhya Lila Chapter 19, purport to Text 152

Bhakti-lata-bija can be received only through the mercy of the spiritual master. Therefore one has to satisfy the spiritual master to get bhakti-lata-bija (yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasadah). Bhakti-lata-bija is the origin of devotional service. Unless one satisfies the spiritual master, he gets the bija, or root cause, of karma, jnana and yoga without the benefit of devotional service. However one who is faithful to his spiritual master gets the bhakti-lata-bija. This bhakti-lata-bija is received when one is initiated by the bona fide spiritual master. After receiving the spiritual master's mercy, one must repeat his instructions, and this is called sravana-kirtana—hearing and chanting. One who has not properly heard from the spiritual master or who does not follow the regulative principles is not fit for chanting (kirtana). This is explained in Bhagavad-gita (2.41): vyavasayatmika buddhir ekeha kuru-nandana. One who has not listened carefully to the instructions of the spiritual master is unfit to chant or preach the cult of devotional service. One has to water the bhakti-lata-bija after receiving instructions from the spiritual master.
Revised Cc Madhya Lila Chapter 19, purport to Text 152

The bhakti-lata-bija can be received only through the mercy of the spiritual master. Therefore one has to satisfy the spiritual master to get the bhakti-lata-bija (yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasadah). The bhakti-lata-bija is the origin of devotional service. Unless one satisfies the spiritual master, he gets the bija, or root cause, of karma, jnana and yoga without the benefit of devotional service. But one who is faithful to his spiritual master gets the bhakti-lata-bija. This bhakti-lata-bija is received when one is initiated by the bona fide spiritual master. After receiving the spiritual master's mercy, one must repeat his instructions, and this is called sravana-kirtana—hearing and chanting. One who has not properly heard from the spiritual master or who does not follow the regulative principles is not fit for chanting (kirtana). This is explained in the Bhagavad-gita (2.41): vyavasayatmika buddhir ekeha kuru-nandana. One who has not listened carefully to the instructions of the spiritual master is unfit for chanting or for preaching the cult of devotional service. One has to water the bhakti-lata-bija by receiving instructions from the spiritual master.

[Interesting how the single word by can change the meaning of a purport.]

Original Cc Madhya Lila Chapter 19, purport to Text 157

If one thinks that there are many pseudo devotees or nondevotees in the Krsna Consciousness Society, one can keep direct company with the spiritual master, and if there is any doubt, one should consult the spiritual master. However, unless one follows the spiritual master's instructions and the regulative principles governing chanting and hearing the holy name of the Lord, one cannot become a pure devotee. Revised Cc Madhya Lila Chapter 19, purport to Text 157

Even if one thinks that there are many pseudo devotees or nondevotees in the Krsna Consciousness Society, still one should stick to the Society; if one thinks the Society members are not pure devotees, one can keep direct company with the spiritual master, and if there is any doubt, one should consult the spiritual master. However, unless one follows the spiritual master's instructions concerning the regulative principles and chanting and hearing the holy name of the Lord, one cannot become a pure devotee.


[In this one paragraph there are 2 significant changes to the original text on the left. Firstly, Jayadvaita has inserted "still one should stick to the Society". Srila Prabhupada has not said this at all. Secondly, Srila Prabhupada stresses the importance of following the spiritual master's instructions and the regulative principles that govern chanting and hearing the holy name of the Lord. What are those principles governing chanting and hearing? Again, Jayadvaita changes the meaning, saying that one must follow the spiritual master's instructions concerning the regulative principles (readers will assume he's referring to the 4 regs) and chanting and hearing the holy name of the Lord.]

[honeyflowerservant]

The BG verse about the yogi is not a change in teaching, it is a change in style of translation. Either version expresses the same conclusion.

no offense but it's supposed to be that only the Acharya can make changes. Are you saying that you can understand the true Siddhantic meaning of this verse? i don't mean to offend if i do, please excuse me, as i'm just trying to reach an understanding of all of this.



Srila Prabhupada:

Town Hall Lecture — Auckland, April 14, 1972
"If you want to speak something from your side, you write your own book. Why should you take advantage of the popular book of Bhagavad-gita and misrepresent it? That is the fun. You see? There are about six hundred different types of editions commenting on Bhagavad-gita. But according to Bhagavad-gita, all these six hundred editions in different, studied from different angle of vision, they are all absurd and nonsense. It is very difficult. People have been misled by the so-called commentaries. There is no need of unnecessarily commenting on certain things. There is no necessity. Commentary or interpretation required when things are not very clear. Then you can suggest, "The meaning may be like this." But when the things are clear, why should you comment?"

1975 July 15th San Francisco Arrival Lecture
"So sometimes people give me very much credit that I have done wonderful throughout the whole world. But I do not know that I am wonderful man. But I know one thing, that I am speaking what Krsna has spoken. That's all. I am not making any addition, alteration. Therefore I am presenting Bhagavad-gita as it is. This credit I can take, that I don't making any nonsense addition or alteration."
(http://guru.krishna.org/Articles/2002/10/026.html)


please also see this link, http://www.hare-krishna.org/showflat/cat/HareKrishnaNews/7/12/collapsed/3/o/1 - 'A Question of Authority'

[vespertine212]

I'm sorry, but I still don't think you've produced anything substancial as far as book changes go. To me it sounds like you're just nit-picking. Are you just looking for an opportunity to criticize?

One point I made, which I think still stands, is that it is the example of our acharyas (acharya means "one who teaches by example") to change things. So if Prabhupada's disciples change some minor things, why are you disturbed?

If you want to say "Oh Prabhupada is the acharya so he can do anything, but no one else can do those things" then what is the meaning of his being an acharya? Why does he do things that no one else should do?

The main point is that there are details and principles. Details may change, principles remain the same. I think the BBT editors sincerely want to glorify Srila Prabhupada by presenting his books in the clearest way possible, and in doing so may change some small details in the books to present them nicely. I'm sure there is no malicious intent involved. I'm also sure that anyone who reads any edition will be benefitted tremendously.

[honeyflowerservant]

"Do Not Change My Words!"

Srila Prabhupada And His Books (Vrindavan June 1977)

by Gauridasa Pandita Dasa

Srila Prabhupada used to like to sit in his garden in Vrindavan especially in the mornings. He liked to hear his books read to him daily. One time Yasodanandan Prabhu was reading Sri Isopanisad when Srila Prabhupada stopped him and asked him to reread the last paragraph. After hearing it again Srila Prabhupada said, "Those are not my words! They are changing my words! Is my English not good enough?" Srila Prabhupada became very angry and continued, "This is the worst thing a disciple can do! Do not become like a leap frog and try to jump over the spiritual master thinking you know better than him. Tell them immediately [the editors] do not change my words!"

Srila Prabhupada was very upset about the changes in his books. I never saw him get so angry any other time....

....Another time when Srila Prabhupada asked a devotee to read in the garden the devotee asked him why he liked to hear his own books so much. Srila Prabhupada said, "I did not write these books. Krishna wrote these books!" ....

....Srila Prabhupada said the disease of the Americans is that we want to change everything. Let's get rid of this disease and maintain what Srila Prabhupada has worked so hard to give us; without adulteration or change.


i hope this clears things up. Jaya Gurudev,
Your servant,
Madhupriya dd

[cherry]

These are a few of the examples on how your Prabhupada differs from the teachings and practices of Srila Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura. His Mayapura Dham, his process of Deity worship, his nama-sankirtan, his book publications, his personal conducts, his Deity installations, his process of initiating disciples all differs from his Gurudeva.[/quote]
Srila Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura, and Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada were preaching in different times, places and circumstances, this is easy to see.
Srila Prabhupada must of made these changes, because Lord Krsna told him to, why else would he change. Even such a low fool as i can understand this ...

[honeyflowerservant]

These are a few of the examples on how your Prabhupada differs from the teachings and practices of Srila Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura. His Mayapura Dham, his process of Deity worship, his nama-sankirtan, his book publications, his personal conducts, his Deity installations, his process of initiating disciples all differs from his Gurudeva.
Srila Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura, and Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada were preaching in different times, places and circumstances, this is easy to see.
Srila Prabhupada must of made these changes, because Lord Krsna told him to, why else would he change. Even such a low fool as i can understand this ...
Jai Srila Prabhupada!!

[honeyflowerservant]

your Prabhupada.`
why do you say this? even on Wikipedia u can read nice stories..

Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura

Upon Prabhupada's first meeting with his spiritual master in 1922, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, requested that he preach the message of Lord Caitanya in the English language. In 1933 Prabhupada became a formally initiated disciple. In 1937 Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura passed away. Beginning in 1944 Prabhupada started Back to Godhead, an English language fortnightly for which he acted as publisher, editor and copy editor. In 1947 the Gaudiya Vaisnava Society recognised Prabhupada's scholarship with the honorific Bhaktisiddhanta (Sanskrit: One who has both devotion and knowledge. Later that same year his title was changed to Bhaktivedanta, having the same meaning. See Bhakti and Vedanta). Beginning in 1950 he lived at the medieval temple of Radha-Damodara in the holy city of Vrindavan where he began his translation work on the Sanskrit epic, Srimad Bhagavatam.

Sannyasa

He took sannyasa vows in 1959 from his Godbrother Sri Bhakti Prajnana Keshava Maharaja at Mathura, following which he singlehandedly published the first three volumes of his thirty volume translation of the 18,000 verse Bhagavata Purana and the commentary on it. He then left India to fulfill his master's spiritual mission. In his possession were a suitcase, an umbrella, a supply of dry cereal, about seven dollars worth of Indian currency, and several boxes of books.`
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srila_Prabhupada#Bhaktisiddhanta_Sarasvati_Thakura `
`
please see http://prabhupada.krishna.org/Articles/2001/12/011.html

[cherry]

i don't know if this has been mentioned, this thread is long, and i'm hangin' to put this up lol :)

Caitanya Caritamrta - changed verison - purport
Even if one thinks that there are many pseudo devotees or nondevotees in the Krishna Consciousness Society, still one should stick to the Society; if one thinks the Society’s members are not pure devotees, one can keep direct company with the spiritual master, and if there is any doubt, one should consult the spiritual master. -Cc madhya19.157
.................................................. .............................

original verison - Prabhupada's

If one thinks that there are many pseudo devotees or nondevotees in the Krsna Consciousness Society, one can keep direct company with the spiritual master, and if there is any doubt, one should consult the spiritual master.

[Original C.C. Madhya 19.157]
.................................................. ............................

Mukunda Dasa comments on this ....
Mukunda dasa: NO STICK TO THE SOCIETY!!! The following sentence was added "still one should stick to the Society; if one thinks the Society’s members are not pure devotees" It is very interesting to note that they add the word even at the beginning of the paragraph. This gives strength to their cheating suggestions: "Even if you have sussed us out that we are not pure or that we are actually the envious non devotees in the Krishna Consciousness Society STILL YOU HAVE TO STICK TO THE [OUR] SOCIETY... Prabhupada says so!!!"

[madhu]

Jaya Sri Sri Guru & Gauraga

Gentlemen, the offering of such an homage as has been arranged this evening to the acaryadeva is not a sectarian concern, for when we speak of the fundamental principle of gurudeva or acaryadeva, we speak of something that is of universal application. There does not arise any question of discrirninating my guru from yours or anyone else's.

There is only one guru, who appears in an infinity of forrns to teach you, me and all others.

In the Mundaka Upanisad (1.2.12) it is said:

tad-vijnartham sa gurum evabhigacchet samit-panih srotriyam brahma-nistham

"In order to learn the transcendental science, one must approach the bona fide spiritual master in disciplic succession, who is fixed in the Absolute Tmth.''

Thus it has been enjoined herewith that in order to receive that transcendental knowledge, one must approach the guru. Therefore, if the Absolute Truth is one, about which we think there is no difference of opinion, the guru cannot be two. The acaryadeva to whom we have assembled tonight to offer our humble homage is not the guru of a sectarian institution or one out of many differing exponents of the truth. On the contrary, he is the jagad-guru,or the guru of all of us, the only difference is that some obey him wholeheartedly, while others do not obey him directly.
"Just approach the wise and bona fide spiritual master. Surrender unto him first and try to understand him by inquiries and service. Such a wise spiritual master will enlighten you with transcendental knowledge, for he has already known the Aksolute Truth."

To receive transcendental knowledge, we must completely surrender ourselves to the real acarya in a spirit of ardent inquiry and service. Actual performance of service to the Absolute under the guidance of the acarya is the only vehicle by which we can assimilate transcendental knowledge. Today's meeting for offering our humble services and homage to the feet of the acaryadeva will enable us to be favored with the capacity of assimilating the transcendental knowledge so kindly transmitted by him to all persons without distinction.
Personally, I have no hope for any direct service of the coming crores of births in the sojourn of my life, but I am confident that some day or other I shall be delivered from this mire of delusion in which I am at present so deeply sunk. Therefore let me with all my earnestness pray at the lotus feet of my divine master to allow me to suffer the lot for which I am destined due to my past misdoings, but to let me have this power of recollection: that I am nothing but a tiny servant of the Almighty Absolute Godhead, realized through the unflinching mercy of my divine master. Let me therefore bow down at his lotus feet with all the humility at my command.

Abhay Charan Das [early name of A. C. Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada]
For Members, Sri Gaudiya Math
Bombay

-This lecture was originally published in The Harmonist in 1936, on the advent day of His Divine Grace Om Visnupada Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura.

Devotee: Within a religious mission, sectarian policies may appear to bar the path of progress and pragmatic concerns take precedence over spiritual ideals. Should one risk leaving the formal institution or should he try to remain within and work out the problems?

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: Progress means elimination and new acceptance. So, when there is a clash between the relative and the absolute standpoint, the relative must be left aside, and the absolute accepted. The example is given of a socialist in a country of capitalists. When there is a clash, one will not express their creed for the sake of peace. But to maintain the purity of their faith for the socialists they will try to leave and join the socialists.

Higher Ideal

So, the absolute and the relative are two different classes of interest. And we find more importance in the absolute interest. We must be sincere to our own creed. The form is necessary to help me in a general way to maintain my present position. At the same time, my conception of the higher ideal will always goad me to advance, to go forward, and wherever I do, I must follow the greater model, the greater ideal. Spiritual life is progressive, not stagnant. We are in the stage of sadhana, and we want to go ahead, not backwards. The formal position will help me to maintain my present status, and my extraordinary affinity for the ideal will goad me towards the front. The search for Sri Krsna is dynamic and living, so adjustment and readjustment is always going on. And we should also change our present position accordingly, so that we may not have to sacrifice the high ideal for which we have come. Einstein had to leave Germany and go to America for his high ideal of life. And so many similar instances may be found in the world. The ideal is all in all. The highest ideal in a man is his highest jewel. Our most precious gem is our ideal.

Many things are recommended in the scriptures, but they are meant to promote us towards the truth in an indirect way (sva-dharme nidhanam sreya ). [Bg 3.35] It is recommended at a certain stage that for the sake of our close friends, we should give up our ideal. But in the Bhagavad-gita, Krsna's final instruction is sarva dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja: "If it is necessary to maintain the highest ideal, you must give up your friends. Surrender to me. I am the real purport of the scriptures." The highest kind of idealists give up their country, their family, their friends, and everything else, but they can't give up their ideal.

In the Bhagavad-gita, [3.35] Krsna says, "It is better to die while performing one's duty that to try to do another's duty." That is one stage of understanding: the relative consideration. The absolute consideration is also given in the Bhagavad-gita: sarva dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Krsna says, "Give up everything. Come to Me directly." This is the revolutionary way. This is absolute. And this is relative: "Stick to your own clan. Don't leave them." That is the national conception. There is nation consciousness and God consciousness; society consciousness and God consciousness. God consciousness is absolute. If society consciousness hinders the development of God consciousness, it should be left behind. This is confirmed in the Srimad-Bhagavatam (5.5.18):


gurur na sa syat sva jano na sa syat
pita na sa syaj janani na sa syat
daivam na tat syan na patis ca sa syan
na mocayed yah samupeta mrtyum
Even a spiritual master, relative, parent, husband, or demigod who cannot save us from repeated birth and death should be abandoned at once."

What to speak of ordinary things, even the guru, may have to be abandoned. One may even have to give up one's own spiritual guide, as in the case of Bali Maharaja, or one's relatives, as in the case of Vibhisana. In the case of Prahlada, his father had to be given up, and in the case of Bharata Maharaja, it was his mother. In the case of Khatvanga Maharaja, he left the demigods, and in the case of the yajna patnis, (the wives of the brahmanas ) they left their husbands in the endeavor to reach the Absolute Personality.

We need society only to help us. If our affinity to the society keeps us down, then that should be given up, and we must march on. There is the absolute consideration and the relative consideration. When they come into clash, the relative must be given up, and the absolute should be accepted. If my inner voice, my spiritual conscience decides that this sort of company cannot really help me, then I will be under painful necessity to give them up, and to run towards my destination, wherever my spiritual conscience guides me. Any other course will be hypocrisy, and it will check my real progress. If we are sincere in our attempt, then no one in the world can check us or deceive us; we can only deceive ourselves (na hi kalyana-krt kascid durgatim tata gacchati ) [Bg. 6.40]. We must be true to our own selves, and true to the Supreme Lord. We must be sincere.

http://www.geocities.com/nitai_gaura/prab_sridhar.jpg