The Ritvik School of Thought

Hare Krsna,
Hope this helps IloveKrsna:
some Info@:

www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saranagati/html/vishnu_mjs/ritvik/index.html

And this@:

___________
Letter to: Madhusudana
--
Navadvipa
2 November, 1967
67-11-02

My Dear Madhusudana,

Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated 24th October 1967. Kirtanananda was awarded the position of a Sannyasi because he wanted it although I could understand it that he wanted to be a spiritual master himself. Lord Caitanya wanted every one should be a spiritual master provided he follows the order of Lord Caitanya.

The Lord's mission was to defeat the Mayavada philosophy and establish in the philosophy of Krishna consciousness because Krishna is the Supreme Lord the Personality of Godhead. Anyone following the order of Lord Caitanya under the guidance of His bona fide representative, can become a spiritual master and I wish that in my absence all my disciples become the bona fide spiritual master to spread Krishna Consciousness throughout the whole world. I want it but Kirtanananda was too much puffed up and artificially he took up a certificate from me that he has been awarded the order to a Sannyasi, In the spiritual field nobody can become a bona fide spiritual master by dissatisfying his spiritual master. It is said that one can satisfy the Supreme Lord simply by satisfying the spiritual master and one who dissatisfies the spiritual master has no place in the spiritual world.

Kirtanananda wanted to become a spiritual master by dissatisfying his spiritual master and as such he has fallen down. He cannot say anything genuine any more till he has had revival of his pure consciousness in the spiritual world as mentioned above. Differentiation between spirit & matter is clear & practical experience, when a living creature is dead no amount of material advancement of science can bring back a dead body to life. The thing which is absent from a dead body is the spirit. As there is individual spirit in individual body, similarly there is the Great Spirit in the universal material form.

As the individual spirit is working systematically within the individual material body, similarly, the Supreme Spirit is conscious of the universal body. The lord knows what is happening in each & every planet as much as an individual soul knows what is happening in each & every part of his body. Therefore, the individual consciousness which is limited, when dovetailed with the Supreme Consciousness of the Lord is called Krishna Consciousness. When I return some of you shall be offered Sacred Thread. I very much appreciate your version that Rayarama is roaring like a Lion-cub. I wish that every one of you should be Lion's descendant.

Our Lord Krishna assumed the form of Lion & killed the atheist, Hiranyakasipu, & by disciplic succession we shall also kill all impersonalist atheist. Absolutely there is no Krishna Consciousness for the impersonalist. Hope you are well.

Your ever well-wisher
A. C. Bhaktivedanta, Swami

http://www.iskconirm.com/illuminating_srila_prabhupadas_order.htm

http://www.iskconirm.com/

http://www.iskconirm.com/illuminating_srila_prabhupadas_order.htm

http://www.iskconirm.com/

Haribol gog108

Please accept my obeisances. All glories to SRila Prabhupada. Hare Krsna.

I recently received the two issues of Back to Prabhupada Magazine for the IRM. All I can say is WOW!

Very well done and extremely informative. All should read this magazine.

your servant,
Rukmini-Devi dasi



http://www.iskconirm.com/illuminating_srila_prabhupadas_order.htm

http://www.iskconirm.com/

Hare Krsna,

(snip)

Letter to: Madhusudana
--
Navadvipa
2 November, 1967
67-11-02

My Dear Madhusudana,

Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated 24th October 1967. Kirtanananda was awarded the position of a Sannyasi because he wanted it although I could understand it that he wanted to be a spiritual master himself. Lord Caitanya wanted every one should be a spiritual master provided he follows the order of Lord Caitanya.

The Lord's mission was to defeat the Mayavada philosophy and establish in the philosophy of Krishna consciousness because Krishna is the Supreme Lord the Personality of Godhead. Anyone following the order of Lord Caitanya under the guidance of His bona fide representative, can become a spiritual master and I wish that in my absence all my disciples become the bona fide spiritual master to spread Krishna Consciousness throughout the whole world. I want it but Kirtanananda was too much puffed up and artificially he took up a certificate from me that he has been awarded the order to a Sannyasi, In the spiritual field nobody can become a bona fide spiritual master by dissatisfying his spiritual master. It is said that one can satisfy the Supreme Lord simply by satisfying the spiritual master and one who dissatisfies the spiritual master has no place in the spiritual world.

Kirtanananda wanted to become a spiritual master by dissatisfying his spiritual master and as such he has fallen down. He cannot say anything genuine any more till he has had revival of his pure consciousness in the spiritual world as mentioned above. Differentiation between spirit & matter is clear & practical experience, when a living creature is dead no amount of material advancement of science can bring back a dead body to life. The thing which is absent from a dead body is the spirit. As there is individual spirit in individual body, similarly there is the Great Spirit in the universal material form.

(snip - see above for full letter)

Your ever well-wisher
A. C. Bhaktivedanta, Swami

My Dear GovindaRam,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

I do not know if I can bring peace to the debate going on here, but one thing I notice is much of it seems more like a personality clash or personal differences. I hope that won't be transgressed over to me or what I am trying to explain.

You do not have to accept what I explain either. Simply I ask that you give me a chance.

I agree Prabhupada said, back in the early 70s, that his disciples should also make disciples. I wish it were that simple that all we need to do is look at some of the letters and quotes from Prabhupada but not the others. Unforatuntely, its not. Because by omitting them, various important issues are left out if we dont view the other multitude of points Prabhupada said on this very important position.

Please do not misunderstand me. If you can find for me, a guru who meets up to what Prabhupada described as qualifications for guru, I will have no problem with that person. So far, that has not been seen. What has been factually seen in real life, is fall down after fall down. I'm a realist. No offence intended, but for myself, I find it difficult to accept as an authority over my soul, those who keep falling down themselves.

If you notice, in the above letter which you quoted, right after Prabhupada states he wants his disciples to become guru, he next states:

"but Kirtanananda was too much puffed up and artificially he took up a certificate from me that he has been awarded the order to a Sannyasi, In the spiritual field nobody can become a bona fide spiritual master by dissatisfying his spiritual master. "

I only point this out because we need to see Prabhupada also made it clear that for someone to take disciples, they must be qualified. It is not merely because they are his disciples that they can take on disciples; rather they must live the life perfectly as well as reveal high spiriutal qualification. The point I am trying to make here (basically) is about the first part of the quote I used.

The second part is that a devotee must not dissatisify his spiriutal master or else they can not beocme a bona fide guru themselves. This is important point because tho Prabhupada did indeed say he wanted his disciples to become guru, however he later changed his mind, therefore the modern gurus are dissatisifying Prabhupada by going against his instruction. You may not agree and that is your right. Simply, this is my understanding and my belief for all I have studied on this, and I have studied it a lot.

I remember once, when Prabhupada was sick, how he replied to Bhavananda they were all just children and not ready to take over. Although that is a lesser point. Mostly, I go by his Last Will and Testament. Devotees can change and manipulate all sorts of documentation, recordings and such. But due to the law being in charge of his Will, they could not get their hands on it. Though they tried.

In his Will he made it very clear that the future disciples will be his. I dont have the exact quote on hand. Does someone else? Anyway, all I humbly ask is that you consider this perspective.

Wishing you well.

Peace.

Your Fallen Servant,
Devotee

Srila Rupa Goswami considers taking initiation as paramount in importance
among his sixty-four items of devotional service (adau gurvasrayam)
[underlining and highlighting throughout added]:
In Bhakti-rasämåta-sindhu compiled by Çré Rüpa Gosvämé
it is said that one should be very liberal in behavior and should
avoid any undesirable activities. The most important affirmative
points are that one should accept the shelter of a bona fide
spiritual master, be initiated by him and serve him. (Teachings
of Lord Caitanya: Chapter 12)
In effect, eliminating the diksa guru is tantamount to spiritual abortion.
SMOKING GANJA THROUGH ANOTHER’S HAND
Wishing to propound an invented philosophy, a philosopher may speak
as if his own ideas were expounded within Lord Krsna’s Bhagavad-gita.
Using Bhagavad-gita’s popularity and authority, the less-known philosopher
hopes to gain an audience. Using this technique, unscrupulous commentators
have written that the Bhagavad-gita propounds political nonviolence,
psychological symbolism, Mayavada doctrine, and other erroneous
ideas.
Srila Prabhupada compared such mischievous activity to a ganja
smoker who asks another person to hold the ganja while he smokes it in
order to avoid the bad smell remaining on his own hand. The present
attempt to propound a new theory of ritvik initiations is already mischievous
enough but by trying to attribute the concoction to His Divine Grace
through twisting his words is nothing less than outrageous.
SIKSA LINE?
Wily ritvik advocates try to prove diksa gurus obsolete because,
according to them, the Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya is a “siksa
line,” not a “diksa line.” The truth is however, that the Brahma Sampradaya
is simultaneously both a diksa and a siksa line, exactly as recommended
in the sastras. Every preceptor in the line has taken diksa directly from a
physically-present guru and every preceptor accepts transcendental instructions
from advanced Vaisnavas. There is no Vaisnava acarya who
will say that it is not necessary to take initiation from a bonafide spiritual
master. Vaisnava sva-paca guru. Even if person is born of a family of dogeaters,
if he is a Vaisnava, he can become a guru. Furthermore, ISKCON
devotees are duty-bound to accept the diksa principle because Rupa
Goswami and Srila Prabhupada ordained it.Siksa-line proponents point out that Srila Vyasadeva was not the diksa
guru of Madhvacarya, and that other spiritual masters listed in our disciplic
succession were not initiated by the person whose name appears directly
above theirs. We should not fail to acknowledge, however, that each acarya
whose name appears on the list has a diksa guru. There is no acarya in our
line who does not have a diksa guru. How then can we say that it is not a
diksa line? Although Madhvacarya is certainly a glorious siksa disciple of
Srila Vyasadeva, his honored diksa guru is Acyuta Prekñäcärya Tértha.
By trying to eliminate the diksa guru, ritvik proponents ignore Srila
Prabhupada’s emphasis on this point.
Actually, you have only one Spiritual Master, who initiates
you, just as you have only one father. But every Vaisnava should
be treated as prabhu, master, higher than me, and in this sense,
if I learn from him, he may be regarded as guru. It is not that I
disobey my real Spiritual Master and call someone else as Spiritual
Master. That is wrong. It is only that I can call Spiritual
Master someone who is teaching me purely what my initiating
Spiritual Master has taught. (Letter November 20, 1971)
Srila Prabhupada refers to the diksa guru as one’s real spiritual master
and the siksa guru as one who, in the absence of one’s diksa guru,
supports the same teachings as the diksa guru. In other words, the attempt
of an initiated disciple to find a siksa guru who surpasses or circumventsone’s diksa guru is offensive and such rascaldom will be disastrous to one’s
spiritual life.