Sex only for procreation like the animals?How is that ?

Sex used only for procreating god-conscious individuals is Prabhupada's standard.Is that correct? :roll:

Sex used only for procreating god-conscious individuals is Prabhupada's standard.Is that correct? :roll:

I am simply wondering why you have a problem with this, as I have seen other posts by you too.

In answer to this question, if we are to get off the bodily concept, we must avoid the most powerful bodily attachments. Only than will we be able to taste the higher spirutal bliss. If one is attached to sex life, then get married and do it properly, but even there, if you want to become an initiated disciple and get out of this material world, than that is who the above instruction is for. Not necessarily for the congregational member (tho they can, and they also can go back to Godhead). You ultimately must decide what type of devotee you wish to be, then be your best at it. Worry less, chant Hare Krishna more. :)

Your Servant,
Devotee

[quote=Krushna]Sex used only for procreating god-conscious individuals is Prabhupada's standard.Is that correct? :roll:

I am simply wondering why you have a problem with this, as I have seen other posts by you too.

:shock:

It's not onlty me,99.99999999999999999% of the people in this world have a problem with this standard. :lol:

[quote=Krushna]Sex used only for procreating god-conscious individuals is Prabhupada's standard.Is that correct? :roll:

I am simply wondering why you have a problem with this, as I have seen other posts by you too.

:shock:

It's not onlty me,99.99999999999999999% of the people in this world have a problem with this standard. :lol:

Then 99.99999999999999999% of the people in this world will have to take birth again and again. We are not going to change the philosophy and method to please them. And let us remember, while this may be a big number to us, it is small compared to those in the spiritual world. Only about 1/4 of the population of the ENTIRE material worlds exist in, well... the material world. The other 3/4 did NOT fall down and therefore they live in peace and bliss in the spiriutal world. So, if 99.99999999999999999% of the people have a probem, its there for a reason. They have all come here to enjoy separate from Krishna. So Krishna provides a place they can do that.

Look - no one can get over sex desire very well if they dont either move into a temple and have much association of others living the same type of lifestyle, or else find a way to get strict at home. If one is still watching tv, exposing themselves to material energy, etc., they will NOT be able to even conceive of the IDEA of giving up sex desire, what to speak of those who may agree its right but can't, due to contact with material nature (tv, radio, etc). So if you want to give up sex desire, its gonna take work. And if you dont want to do the work, you really don't 'want' to give up sex desire.

Krishna says, what we think of at the time of death, to that place we shall go. Thinking of sex life now, might come back as a pig or ape. ha Practice thinking of Krishna every day, chances are EXTREMELY high one will think of Krishna at the time of death. Sex is a distraction. It is the highest "material" pleasure. One must give up all material pleasures to go back to home, back to Godhead. Now for one who can't, then at least to be honest, admit THEY are the one with the problem, not that the teachings are wrong or should be changed. Then to do the best one can day by day. Surprsingly with this approach, as one ages, sex desire decreases a little anyway. Add to that some degree of sincere desire to renounce, and it CAN go away completely, IF thats what one desires.

Wishing you well. Hare Krishna.

Your Servant,
Devotee 108

[Nicholas]

Devotee you seem to know quite a lot so I have a few questions. These questions are not of high imporance, but I am a very curious individual. I study physics and want to have a better picture of how it all works. Sorry for the intro, but I don't want people to tell me that this is not important and I should just chant, this really interests me...

1-Do souls regularly fall from God as they decide to enjoy without God?
2-Does the balance of souls here and in the spiritual plane change?
3-Has this always been so?
4-Does the material universe end when no souls are present, only some of it's expansions obviously...
5-Are we bound to come back even if we attain liberation?
6-Do some souls dwell here for eternity?
etc. etc.

You probably get my line of questions so you don't have to answer one by one just explain a bit please... Some of the answers I think I know and some I have forgotten. The universe is just such a thing of beauty to me that I am constantly inspired to know more...I know some of the answers are in the Gita and all of them are in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. I only have a Gita unfortunately.

Thank you

[Sri Joyan]

As far as attachment to the bodily concept goes, I think that you remain more attached to the body if you designate that sex is for procreation, or to serve some lusty fulfillment like it is for animals (otherwise known as mating). Sex serves a higher purpose, I dont need to tell you what that is.

Unless you are married and the sex you have with your mate is to only beget Krishna Conscious children then it serves no other purpose than to keep you attached to the material body and world.

[Sri Joyan]

You mean aside from sharing and giving love in service to another person?

You mean aside from sharing and giving love in service to another person?

Nope!

[Sri Joyan]

You mean aside from sharing and giving love in service to another person?

Nope!

Well then i'm sorry to say but i think you are missing something entirely. I would explain it to you, but I think its impossible to explain to someone who doesn't want to, or who refuses to, consider sex is an act of love.

You mean aside from sharing and giving love in service to another person?

Nope!

Well then i'm sorry to say but i think you are missing something entirely. I would explain it to you, but I think its impossible to explain to someone who doesn't want to, or who refuses to, understand that sex is an act of love.

No matter how you try to sugar coat this topic - it is still nothing but another knot in the rope that will bind us and make us forget our true natures and also make us forget the Supreme Lord. Placing false importance on such things only cause anger and frustration.

It is best to concern our minds with other topics - transcendental topics. This helps not only ourselves but also those we hold dear such as family members.

Thank you for your concern however it is misplaced and un-needed. I prefer to hear from Srila Prabhupada on such matters. His concern is to get us out of this material muck and mire not help us to sink deeper.

Hare Krishna

[Sri Joyan]

No matter how you try to sugar coat this topic - it is still nothing but another knot in the rope that will bind us and make us forget our true natures and also make us forget the Supreme Lord. Placing false importance on such things only cause anger and frustration.

It is best to concern our minds with other topics - transcendental topics. This helps not only ourselves but also those we hold dear such as family members.

Thank you for your concern however it is misplaced and un-needed. I prefer to hear from Srila Prabhupada on such matters. His concern is to get us out of this material muck and mire not help us to sink deeper.

Hare Krishna
I see we have very different opinions. How appropriate, for a discussion forum. I dont consider giving love to others of false importance, or a knot. Some people consider giving love to others as being transcendental. As far as my concern (or my input, rather) as being unneeded and misplaced, I think that is going a bit far considering this is a discussion forum. If you are content with the sentiments of Srila Prabhupada and do not need any other ideas in your head, then why get involved in the topic?

Because it is an open discussion forum and this is a topic which Srila Prabhupada preached us about I have the right to enter the discussion and tell what I have learned.

You are the one who attempted to convince me otherwise and I have told you in so many words that your conditioned opinions will not sway me away from the teachings of a pure devotee.

If it does not follow guru, sadhu and sastra then it is just opinions of a fellow conditioned soul - only speculations and dangerous at that.

Chant and read the sastras. Do not create.

Hare Krishna.

[Sri Joyan]

Because it is an open discussion forum and this is a topic which Srila Prabhupada preached us about I have the right to enter the discussion and tell what I have learned.

You are the one who attempted to convince me otherwise and I have told you in so many words that your conditioned opinions will not sway me away from the teachings of a pure devotee.

If it does not follow guru, sadhu and sastra then it is just opinions of a fellow conditioned soul - only speculations and dangerous at that.

Chant and read the sastras. Do not create.

Hare Krishna.
On the one hand, you say that you know what you believe and you won't think otherwise. On the other hand, you say you will enter the discussion. Do you see where these two things clash?

I am not attempting to convince anything... this is a discussion where people can give their ideas and appreciate another person's point of view. If you can't appreciate another person's pov, then there is no point in even registering. If youre fixed in stating "I only listen to what Srila Prabhupada says" and nothing else is open for discussion, then there's no point in entering a discussion forum.

How is stating my opinion any different than you stating your opinion? For that matter i could say that youre trying to convince me to sway from what i believe. That's an unfair assumption to make. If you dont agree with me, fine, but dont post your words and then say mine aren't worth as much.

If it is not according to guru, sadhu and sastr then it is worthless.

So that said, I will not expose you any longer to Srila Prabhupada's teachings on this topic since it just makes you angry. Hmmm...causes anger and frustration...get it?

Good bye


Because it is an open discussion forum and this is a topic which Srila Prabhupada preached us about I have the right to enter the discussion and tell what I have learned.

You are the one who attempted to convince me otherwise and I have told you in so many words that your conditioned opinions will not sway me away from the teachings of a pure devotee.

If it does not follow guru, sadhu and sastra then it is just opinions of a fellow conditioned soul - only speculations and dangerous at that.

Chant and read the sastras. Do not create.

Hare Krishna.
On the one hand, you say that you know what you believe and you won't think otherwise. On the other hand, you say you will enter the discussion. Do you see where these two things clash?

I am not attempting to convince anything... this is a discussion where people can give their ideas and appreciate another person's point of view. If you can't appreciate another person's pov, then there is no point in even registering. If youre fixed in stating "I only listen to what Srila Prabhupada says" and nothing else is open for discussion, then there's no point in entering a discussion forum.

How is stating my opinion any different than you stating your opinion? For that matter i could say that youre trying to convince me to sway from what i believe. That's an unfair assumption to make. If you dont agree with me, fine, but dont post your words and then say mine aren't worth as much.

[Sri Joyan]

If it is not according to guru, sadhu and sastr then it is worthless.

So that said, I will not expose you any longer to Srila Prabhupada's teachings on this topic since it just makes you angry. Hmmm...causes anger and frustration...get it?

Good bye

You are a mystery. I never said i was angry, or that anything was making me angry. I asked you some very real questions. But for some reason we are at opposition. I invite you to respond appropriately when you are ready.

No mystery. I gave you answers according to what I have learned from Srila Prabhupada. You just don't want to see.

We can not tailor our Krishna Consciousness to suit our own conditioned desires. Oh, I will do this but I won't do that....No, that does not work. That is concocting some sort of religion to satisfy yourself.

My ending statement is this - Srila Prabhupada speaks strictly from guru, sadhu and sastra with no compromise. And no compromise it is.

Hare Krishna


If it is not according to guru, sadhu and sastr then it is worthless.

So that said, I will not expose you any longer to Srila Prabhupada's teachings on this topic since it just makes you angry. Hmmm...causes anger and frustration...get it?

Good bye

You are a mystery. I never said i was angry, or that anything was making me angry. I asked you some very real questions. But for some reason we are at opposition. I invite you to respond appropriately when you are ready.

[Sri Joyan]

You just don't want to see.

Please do not assume. However i would ask who is trying to "convince" who.

There are many sects to a religion. No one has a monopoly on the Truth.

[DavyBoy]

sri joyan, you are completely missing the point,Rukmini is on the spiritul plane ,you on the material, sex is for enjoyment, you may think you care about the other person, i belive this selfish act keeps us bound to this material world and this info comes from Sastra, i suppose that rape and ripping young kids apart could be called (an act of love) of sex according to y
ou.

david

There are many sects to a religion. No one has a monopoly on the Truth.

Krishna Consciousness is neither a religion nor a sect. Religions are man-made and have a beginning and an end.

Krishna Consciousness (or God Consciousness) is sanatana dharma and dormant in the hearts of each and every living entity on the face of the material planets.

Your above statement shows that you see this as a religion with many sects and Truths that you can go thru - picking and choosing as your desires carry you until you find the one that allows you to live as your conditioned material senses want to live.


That is your misunderstanding.

May I please ask just a couple of questions from you? These might seem like very basic questions but bear with me please.

Who is Lord Krishna?

What are the vedas?

What happens to us then this body dies?

Who is guru?

Which spiritual leader has influenced you the most?

And why do you put "Sri" in front of your name?

I may have more questions later.

Hare Krishna

[honeyflowerservant]

i agree completely that we should only be concerned with the instruction of Guru Sadhu and Sastra,

BG 11.54: My dear Arjuna, only by undivided devotional service can I be understood as I am, standing before you, and can thus be seen directly. Only in this way can you enter into the mysteries of My understanding.

BG 9.3: Those who are not faithful in this devotional service cannot attain Me, O conqueror of enemies. Therefore they return to the path of birth and death in this material world.

BG 9.14: Always chanting My glories, endeavoring with great determination, bowing down before Me, these great souls perpetually worship Me with devotion.

BG 9.23: Those who are devotees of other gods and who worship them with faith actually worship only Me, O son of Kunti, but they do so in a wrong way.

BG 9.34: Engage your mind always in thinking of Me, become My devotee, offer obeisances to Me and worship Me. Being completely absorbed in Me, surely you will come to Me.

BG 17.14: Austerity of the body consists in worship of the Supreme Lord, the brahmanas, the spiritual master, and superiors like the father and mother, and in cleanliness, simplicity, celibacy and nonviolence.

BG 17.15: Austerity of speech consists in speaking words that are truthful, pleasing, beneficial, and not agitating to others, and also in regularly reciting Vedic literature.


my opinion is that we shouldn't strive to have children if we are unable to deliver the pure loving nature of Bhakti to them given to us by our Guru.

Dandabats.

Jaya Gurudev.

[Sri Joyan]

Who is Lord Krishna?

What are the vedas?

What happens to us then this body dies?

Who is guru?

Which spiritual leader has influenced you the most?

And why do you put "Sri" in front of your name?

I may have more questions later.

Hare Krishna

Just to correct you - I dont see Krsna Consciousness as having sects. I see it as a sect of Hinduism.

First and foremost i came to this forum to be with people who also are devoted to Krishna. Its rare where I live, and in most places of this country. Krishna Consciousness is not a common religion. However I can feel the unfriendly vibe that is radiating from the discussion we are attempting to have. I am not here because I want to impress you, or receive judgement from you. I'm here to share ideas, and if your standpoint is "there is only one way and anyone with an alternate idea is wrong" then we have nothing to discuss. Second, after being raised Catholic, where everything is "You must follow this one way, and do what we say, and anything that steps to the side of what the book says is a sin and is not welcome here," i am extremely cautious of people who say there is only one way, and God will not accept anything but what one person says as true. That is a major reason i broke away from that religion. I know for a fact and a truth of the universe that the Lord is omnipotent and manefests to us in all his varied and resplendant forms. I know for a fact that the Lord does not judge with a harsh wrathfulness. The Lord is only full of love and wants us to return to Godhead.

Thirdly, it seems to me from the short time that we have been trading posts back and forth, attempting to use the forum for what it is intended - discussion - your standpoint has been that you have the answers and I dont, and you want to tell me where my 'errors' are and 'correct' me. Unfortunately I do not want to be involved in such an exchange. I anticipate that the forum will lose another member and this is sad for me, because there are so very little ways for me to connect with other people who are even familiar with Krsna. However I cant see the purpose in associating with rigidity which prevents discussion, and an unfriendly, condescending atmosphere.

In response to your questions:
Lord Krsna is the earthly manefestation of Lord Vishnu. He came to the planet Earth to guide and teach mankind so we might come to a greater understanding of the one universal soul we call God. Krsna's teachings of love and service to mankind direct us to our goal.

The vedas are holy books that serve to guide us as we walk through life.

When our bodies die, we are either reincarnated in another form on some physical plane, or we are ascended to Godhead. Ascending to godhead does not take one lifetime, but many and may be an infinite process like a flower unfolding into many layers of petals.

"Guru" means both dark and light - a spiritual teacher.

The spiritual leader who has influenced me the most is Sri Soma Devo. One of his great teachings to me has been: "Be drawn to people who show the most love."

I put Sri in front of my name because i feel like it, i suppose! Thats pretty much it, and because I'm connected to this religion. I could put Sister or something more American i suppose, but it doesn't make much of a difference to me.

[Sri Joyan]

my opinion is that we shouldn't strive to have children if we are unable to deliver the pure loving nature of Bhakti to them given to us by our Guru.

This is well stated.

No, I do not have the answers. Guru, sadhu and sastra have the answers and I only repeat from what I have learned.

But I do need to repeat this to you:

Krishna Consciousness is NOT a religion nor is it a sect of any religion. Until you understand that you will be confused.

Hare Krishna



Who is Lord Krishna?

What are the vedas?

What happens to us then this body dies?

Who is guru?

Which spiritual leader has influenced you the most?

And why do you put "Sri" in front of your name?

I may have more questions later.

Hare Krishna

Just to correct you - I dont see Krsna Consciousness as having sects. I see it as a sect of Hinduism.

First and foremost i came to this forum to be with people who also are devoted to Krishna. Its rare where I live, and in most places of this country. Krishna Consciousness is not a common religion. However I can feel the unfriendly vibe that is radiating from the discussion we are attempting to have. I am not here because I want to impress you, or receive judgement from you. I'm here to share ideas, and if your standpoint is "there is only one way and anyone with an alternate idea is wrong" then we have nothing to discuss. Second, after being raised Catholic, where everything is "You must follow this one way, and do what we say, and anything that steps to the side of what the book says is a sin and is not welcome here," i am extremely cautious of people who say there is only one way, and God will not accept anything but what one person says as true. That is a major reason i broke away from that religion. I know for a fact and a truth of the universe that the Lord is omnipotent and manefests to us in all his varied and resplendant forms. I know for a fact that the Lord does not judge with a harsh wrathfulness. The Lord is only full of love and wants us to return to Godhead.

Thirdly, it seems to me from the short time that we have been trading posts back and forth, attempting to use the forum for what it is intended - discussion - your standpoint has been that you have the answers and I dont, and you want to tell me where my 'errors' are and 'correct' me. Unfortunately I do not want to be involved in such an exchange. I anticipate that the forum will lose another member and this is sad for me, because there are so very little ways for me to connect with other people who are even familiar with Krsna. However I cant see the purpose in associating with rigidity which prevents discussion, and an unfriendly, condescending atmosphere.

In response to your questions:
Lord Krsna is the earthly manefestation of Lord Vishnu. He came to the planet Earth to guide and teach mankind so we might come to a greater understanding of the one universal soul we call God. Krsna's teachings of love and service to mankind direct us to our goal.

The vedas are holy books that serve to guide us as we walk through life.

When our bodies die, we are either reincarnated in another form on some physical plane, or we are ascended to Godhead. Ascending to godhead does not take one lifetime, but many and may be an infinite process like a flower unfolding into many layers of petals.

"Guru" means both dark and light - a spiritual teacher.

The spiritual leader who has influenced me the most is Sri Soma Devo. One of his great teachings to me has been: "Be drawn to people who show the most love."

I put Sri in front of my name because i feel like it, i suppose! Thats pretty much it, and because I'm connected to this religion. I could put Sister or something more American i suppose, but it doesn't make much of a difference to me.

[Sri Joyan]

No, I do not have the answers. Guru, sadhu and sastra have the answers and I only repeat from what I have learned.

But I do need to repeat this to you:

Krishna Consciousness is NOT a religion nor is it a sect of any religion. Until you understand that you will be confused.

Hare Krishna

What does this really have to do with anything that we are talking about?

Oh, and thank you for answering my overly simple questions. But they help me to get to know you better.

Now that this discussion between us is over (to carry on would only be chewing the chewed) perhaps you can see how something material like the sense pleasure of sex can cause problems.

Hare Krishna!

my opinion is that we shouldn't strive to have children if we are unable to deliver the pure loving nature of Bhakti to them given to us by our Guru.

Hare Krishna,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Exactly! And this is why we are instructed by guru to not have sex for any other reason which includes our own sense enjoyment.

your servant,
Rukmini-Devi dasi

[Sri Joyan]

Oh, and thank you for answering my overly simple questions. But they help me to get to know you better.

Now that this discussion between us is over (to carry on would only be chewing the chewed) perhaps you can see how something material like the sense pleasure of sex can cause problems.

Hare Krishna!

I think the root of the confusion lays in this: I didn't say that sex was for sense enjoyment. I did say that sex is an act of love. Somehow this got spun out of control.

I think the root of the confusion lays in this: I didn't say that sex was for sense enjoyment. I did say that sex is an act of love. Somehow this got spun out of control.

Using sex as an act of love is sense enjoyment. It is binding. Think about it. Seriously think about it!

But this is just going over and over the same thing. Anything that I have to say on this topic I have said.

BTW, if you come into a public forum such as this and say something that is not according to Guru, sadhu and sastra then you need to understand that someone will say something about it.


Hare Krishna

[Sri Joyan]

I think the root of the confusion lays in this: I didn't say that sex was for sense enjoyment. I did say that sex is an act of love. Somehow this got spun out of control.

Using sex as an act of love is sense enjoyment. It is binding. Think about it. Seriously think about it!

But this is just going over and over the same thing. Anything that I have to same on this topic I have said.

Hare Krishna

Yes, i will admit that serving and loving others is enjoyable. =)

Yes, i will admit that serving and loving others is enjoyable. =)

The most enjoyable and loving service is to help someone to know and love Lord Krishna. The greatest of welfare acts for living beings is to help them find their way out of this raging ocean of material existence.

Hare Krishna!!

[honeyflowerservant]

Please accept my humble obeisances,

personally i feel that Hinduism is a sect of Krishna Consciousness, if that makes any sense, without meaning to offend, i feel that capitilaization should be of Guri, not 'i'.
i also feel that it has been and remains the expres will of Srila Prabhupada that we read the following.. it would be nice to hear your opinions on this, it may not seem to have anything to do with the topic, but to me it does..

http://www.scsmath.com/grfx/guru_trio.gif

ISKCON Mayapur, 1973
Srila Swami Maharaj asked Srila Sridhar Maharaj to give a lecture during the inauguration of the ISKCON Chandrodaya Mandir in Mayapur, 1973


Srila Sridhar Maharaj: This ashram is being opened today. What is its position? In Srimad Bhagavatam we find,

vanam tu sattviko vaso gramo rajasa ucyate
tamasam dyuta-sadanam man-niketam tu nirgunam
(S.B. 11.25.25)

„Residence in the forest is in the mode of goodness, residence in a town is in the mode of passion, residence in a gambling house displays the quality of ignorance, and residence in a place where I reside is transcendental.“

Vana vas means plain living with the minimum of material things to help our life, that is vana vas. It is a simple life, plain living and high thinking, but there also we are masters of that little thing, that sattvika vas. It is most conducive to our religious life. There is no grandeur of any material enjoyment, etc. That is sattvika vas or vana vas.

Rajasa vas is a life where one is engaged in various activities in the upliftment of the society and the world and the civilization. That is rajasa, where a maximum amount of energy is spent to improve the paraphernalia where we live to make us comfortable.
Tamasa vas dyuta-sadanam is a life without caring for any social life, only maximum amount of sense pleasure and minimum amount of giving to others, society or any paraphernalia. It is a reckless life, a life in the clubhouse or hotel or something like that. It is irresponsible life. Tamasa vas dyuta-sadanam.

Man-niketam tu nirgunam. And if we live our life in the house of the Lord, we may dive ourselves in any amount of grandeur, or anything of the type, but still it is nirgunam, because we are not masters there. We are servants. We are servants.
In the vana vas, so simple life with minimum material things with which we surround ourselves to live, but still there we are masters to command.

But here we are all servants. Everything is to be served. Whatever we shall see, all around, even a tree, even a creeper or even a particle of dust is to be served and is not to be enjoyed or renounced. That is the form of life, a life of worship, a life of devotion. It is not only to please the Lord but also all of his paraphernalia and to see that they that they are also serving the Supreme Entity. With this idea, to be a serving factor in the all serving environment of the Lord, is man-niketam tu nirgunam.

So, we have come to life here a nirguna life, crossing all sorts of relativities of this material world, whatever conception it may be, and to learn that Isavasyam idam sarvam, the fundamental truth given in the Upanisads, Isopanisad, that Isavasyam idam sarvam, that everything there is the presence of the Supreme Entity, the Supreme Lord. With this conception we are to live in such a training house.

I was told in Back to Godhead one gentleman wrote that so called universities, colleges, and schools are slaughter houses. I am very much pleased with this idea. Yes. They are nothing but slaughterhouses, and this sort of institution, what our Guru Maharaj has inaugurated in this world to uplift us and all jivas toward the worship and loving service of the Supreme Entity. They are like oasis in the desert. All these are oasis in the desert. They are life giving and not flattering institutions, like so many educational institutions that we find. Sa vijna mammate jaya. Where this sort of training comes, that goes towards centre, towards reality, towards beauty, towards harmony, towards a solution of life, towards nectar giving life, these institutions are only helpful and this is necessary.

Once Madan Mohan Maladaviya, a famous leader in the past history, that is recent history of India, he came to visit our Guru Maharaj and after listening to his words he told, “ Every village should have one centre of your Divine Grace.” But our Guru Maharaj answered in return that, “I want to make everybody a temple of the Lord, every human being, every human body I want to make a temple therein, not only villages.” So, that was his idea.

prthivite ache yata nagaradi-grama sarvvatra pracara haibe mora nama

With this idea he started his mission, Gaudiya Math, Gaudiya Mission. And we are seeing that Swami Maharaj by his grace he is able to spread it around India and throughout the world and different continents. We are very happy to see new faces around us for the preaching purpose and spreading the news of Sri Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Prabhupad, Srila Bhaktivinod Thakur and Sriman Mahaprabhu, the vision of Sri Krishna and His beloved.
There are elevationist, there are renunciates, but we are servitors. Geham jusam api manasy udiyat sada nah (P.J. 8,26 last line) “true to the heaven and the heart…. True to the kindred point of the heaven and the heart.”

Cloister and the heart, the knowledge of these. But the heart has been made the cloister. The gopi bhajan is to make the heart the cloister. Not that the cloister has a separate place. The heart is the cloister and this is only possible with the Krishna conception of Godhead. The wholesale will be converted, every nook and corner. Nothing should be left out. No vacancy should be left out for any other purpose but to devote all respects to the Supreme Entity, to be faithful to the extreme. Nothing should be left. This is only possible in the Krishna conception of Godhead (Akhila rasamrta murith) All sorts of ecstasy, happiness, and everything of the type can be possible in its divine form when we find Sri Krishna as the Supreme Lord and nowhere else.

One western gentleman told there are many conceptions of religion in different parts of the world, but we do not find any conception of religion where 24 hours can be devoted in the service of the Supreme Lord. Not only Sunday, not only twice in the day, not only thrice in the day, but every hour and second should be devoted in the service of the Supreme Entity and then nothing will be left behind. This sort of service is only possible in kirtaniya sada hari and in the astakaliya-lila of Sri Krishnachandra Himself in the Madhurya-rasa.

Sri Chaitanyadev came down to this world to preach that, to give that nectarine life to one and all. Nirmatsarya adikarita, take the name of the Lord and you will find yourself in His harem one day. For religion, not money is necessary, not physical energy in great quantity is necessary nor other helping things. Only try to take the name sincerely. It should be acquired in the right channel otherwise there will be some tampering energy. Trade in the name of religion is also going on here and there, and we should save ourselves from those difficulties by following a bona fide path that we can get our supreme name.

So, on the day of the advent of Sri Krishna Chaitanya – Sri Krishna Consciousness then Sri Krsna Chaitayna. Consciousness is Chaitanya and Krishna Consciousness is Krishna Chaitanya- who came here to arouse us with the pure consciousness of Krishna, which means serving Krishna in all aspects, all respects, this laudable attempt is being done in great quantity by our Swami Maharaj.

We are very happy to get the chance to attend this function. Swami Maharaj Ki Jaya!


Haribol, Jaya Gurudev.

[Sri Joyan]

Please accept my humble obeisances,

personally i feel that Hinduism is a sect of Krishna Consciousness, if that makes any sense, without meaning to offend

It does make sense =)

Hare Krishna,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

This article brings to mind two things that Prabhupada teaches us often:

"Simple Living. High Thinking"
and
"Always remember Krishna and Never forget Krishna"

your servant,
Rukmini-Devi dasi

Bg. 3.39-
Thus, a man's pure consciousness is covered by his eternal enemy in the form of lust, which is never satisfied and which burns like fire.

Prabhupada's purport:

It is said in the Manu-smrti that lust cannot be satisfied by any amount of sense enjoyment, just as fire is never extinguished by a constant supply of fuel. In the material world, the center of all activities is sex, and thus this material world is called maithunya-ägära, or the shackles of sex life. In the ordinary prison house, criminals are kept within bars; similarly, the criminals who are disobedient to the laws of the Lord are shackled by sex life. Advancement of material civilization on the basis of sense gratification means increasing the duration of the material existence of a living entity. Therefore, this lust is the symbol of ignorance by which the living entity is kept within the material world. While one enjoys sense gratification, it may be that there is some feeling of happiness, but actually that so-called feeling of happiness is the ultimate enemy of the sense enjoyer.

[Damodar]

You mean aside from sharing and giving love in service to another person?

Everything in and of this material world is a sort of perverted reflection of that which is and occurs in the spiritual world.

"Love" as manifested in this material world is skewed and incomplete, because it dwells on (mainly the body of) another jiva ("person") - rather than being placed on the One Person for/with Whom love can be given/received purely and eternally: Lord Krishna.

Sex, as an act of "love" between two materially-embodied souls is simply a shadow-play of the Actual Thing ... and, as such, is always destined to further entrap the participants in bodily identification.

Yet, we are given the capacity for both love, and to commit the sex act.

Why?

:arrow: Love, because we are eternal loving servants of God - with "love" being the key to our eternal relationship with The One Beloved: Lord Krishna.

:arrow: And sex, because it is Lord Krishna's desire that we afford other souls, who remain in the cycle of birth and death, an opportunity to become human-embodied, thus having the best chance to reawaken their dormant love of God.

As for service: every living being is a servant to someone. We can choose to temporarily act as servants to other materially-embodied souls, or even objects (think about it) ~ or to be eternal servants of our eternal God.

It's a matter of choice.

I hope this satisfies your curiosity.

Hare Krishna.

[BhaktaRay]

Yup the no illicit sex is the 'deal-breaker', there's no doubt about it. Intoxication runs a close second.
Admittedly, it's a lot harder the younger you are. I guess that's why there is the grhasta asrama. But you can still make adavancement by chanting regardless of your material condition and practices. It just takes a lot longer, a lot more births. Why wait? Like pulling an infected tooth, it's better to do it quickly than slowly. A lot of pain in a short duration than less pain during a long time.
To quote HDG AC Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada

Striya, pumsam striya mithuni-bhavam etad. This whole material world is existing on sex attraction. Not only in the human society, in animal society also, this sex impulse is there. Birds, beasts, animal, human being, even demigods, they are attracted in this material world by sex impulse. The sastra, or the Vedic literature, there is mention about this, that we are in this material world only for this sex impulse. First of all, we think of sex. A man also thinks. A woman also thinks. And when they are united, that attraction becomes more and more complete. Then, in a gentlemanly way, when there is sex unity, then there is need of a nice apartment or house. Then there is need of land. Formerly, for living condition, everyone possessed some land to grow foodstuff. Atah grha-ksetra-sutapta-vittaih. So after sex unity, there is need of house, land, grha, ksetra, then children, atah grha-ksetra-suta, apta. Then friends. Then vitta, then money. In this way, we increase our attachment for this material world. Janasya moho 'yam. Moha means illusion. In this way, he becomes illusioned. Aham mameti: "I" and "mine." Here, the real problem is we want to get out of this material conditional life. We are spirit soul. We are not matter. But in order to enjoy this material world we have come here. Every one of us who is existing within this material world has a desire to lord it over the material nature. It is said when a living entity, a part and parcel of God, he desires independently to enjoy or to lord it over the material nature, he comes down from the spiritual world to this material world. That is the cause of his falldown.

Krsna gives me the grace to renounce the four pillars of material attachment, meat eating, gambling and speculation, intoxication and illicit sex. I just took up chanting again a couple of weeks ago. I was drinking half a bottle of wine everyday, enjoying porn and illicit sex, eating chicken and fish. Krsna extinguished my cravings almost immediately.
There is some suffering, austerity, but nothing compared to life separate from Krsna and his devotees.

[gigo_jon_108]

Chanting HARE KRISHNA can alleviate all material attachments and addictions!

[suekeno2005]

Please excuse my ignorance, I am very new to Krishna counsciousness and am not sure of alot of things.

Just a brief history to start. As I said, I am very new to Krishna consciousness, and actually discovered it by accident. But now that I have become aware, it seems to me to be the only right way. I have no friends that are of the same mindset as me, and I am not in a position to enlighten others. I have so little knowledge, but I am convinced that this is right. I read as much as I can find time for, so my knowledge is ever increasing.

After reading this thread, I have a question, and I hope you can help me with the answer. I am married, 21 years. My husband is a Christian, and does not have an open mind about other issues. He has accepted the fact that I choose not to eat meat anymore, but can not understand the concept why. I have tried to explain to him some of the philosphies of Krishan consciousness, but as I said, I am so new to it, it is hard for me to explain it fully. He will not read what I have read to enlighten myself.

Now since I am married, and we do not need to procreate any more, do I need to refrain from sex with my husband? I understand the whole lack of illicit sex, but if I refuse him, this will put a terrible strain on my marriage, and I do not think that causing discord at home would be a good thing. Bad karma perhaps? It is not that I need to remain attatched to worldly things, trust me sex is about the biggest distraction from GOD and cause of many problems with people. But this is a different situation.

So how would be the appropriate way to view this? Your replies are much appreciated.

[madhu]

Krsna extinguished my cravings almost immediately.
There is some suffering, austerity, but nothing compared to life separate from Krsna and his devotees.
are you serious ? if you are then you are now a pure devotee,so All Glories 2 you , can i receive initiation from you, coz i'm getting nowhere and i've been chanting for years..take care brother,the no 1 fall down is pride and faultfindind :evil:

[cherry]

Please excuse my ignorance, I am very new to Krishna counsciousness and am not sure of alot of things.

Just a brief history to start. As I said, I am very new to Krishna consciousness, and actually discovered it by accident. But now that I have become aware, it seems to me to be the only right way. I have no friends that are of the same mindset as me, and I am not in a position to enlighten others. I have so little knowledge, but I am convinced that this is right. I read as much as I can find time for, so my knowledge is ever increasing.

After reading this thread, I have a question, and I hope you can help me with the answer. I am married, 21 years. My husband is a Christian, and does not have an open mind about other issues. He has accepted the fact that I choose not to eat meat anymore, but can not understand the concept why. I have tried to explain to him some of the philosphies of Krishan consciousness, but as I said, I am so new to it, it is hard for me to explain it fully. He will not read what I have read to enlighten myself.

Now since I am married, and we do not need to procreate any more, do I need to refrain from sex with my husband? I understand the whole lack of illicit sex, but if I refuse him, this will put a terrible strain on my marriage, and I do not think that causing discord at home would be a good thing. Bad karma perhaps? It is not that I need to remain attatched to worldly things, trust me sex is about the biggest distraction from GOD and cause of many problems with people. But this is a different situation.

So how would be the appropriate way to view this? Your replies are much appreciated.

suekeno2005, Hare Krsna :)
i agree, causing discord at home, as you say, is not a good idea. you are married to a non-devotee, so it is difficult.
all you need to do, is add Krsna to your life, everyday. you just chant and read, even if for only 5 mins, everyday. of course, the more you can do, the better, but just by adding Krsna to your life, everyday, this will fix everything, Krsna will solve all your problems, no doubt.
good luck ok :)

[cherry]

Devotee you seem to know quite a lot so I have a few questions. These questions are not of high imporance, but I am a very curious individual. I study physics and want to have a better picture of how it all works. Sorry for the intro, but I don't want people to tell me that this is not important and I should just chant, this really interests me...

1-Do souls regularly fall from God as they decide to enjoy without God?
2-Does the balance of souls here and in the spiritual plane change?
3-Has this always been so?
4-Does the material universe end when no souls are present, only some of it's expansions obviously...
5-Are we bound to come back even if we attain liberation?
6-Do some souls dwell here for eternity?
etc. etc.

You probably get my line of questions so you don't have to answer one by one just explain a bit please... Some of the answers I think I know and some I have forgotten. The universe is just such a thing of beauty to me that I am constantly inspired to know more...I know some of the answers are in the Gita and all of them are in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. I only have a Gita unfortunately.
Thank you
Nicholas, Hare Krsna, i noticed your questions went unanswered, so i will tell you the limited knowledge i have on this subject, if i am wrong about something, someone please jump in and correct.
1. i am not sure about this, but i do know that most souls do not fall to the material world, and then again, most that fall, only take one birth before going back home.
2. as far as balance of souls goes, you must understand, that the devotee that said that 25% fall, while the rest don't, this is right, but it is a number that helps us understand somewhat. Krsna is always expanding, there is no 'set number' of souls, Krsna is unlimited, therefore, souls are unlimited.
3. this has always been so
4. the material world will never end, there will never be a time when everyone is at home, the material world is actually eternal. yes it will be destroyed, enter back into God's body, but then it will be created again, come out of God's body. Plus, if you understand what i said earlier, about Krsna expanding, etc, this will help with this question.
5. Krsna says that when a soul goes back to the spiritual world, they will never return to material world. it is like, if you put your hand in fire, not knowing it will burn, it will burn, and you will never put your hand back in fire again.
6. no souls dwell here for eternity. even if Krsna would allow that, which He wouldn't, because, is He not everyone's father?, what father would punish forever?, but even if Krsna allowed it, the devotee's, who are full of compassion, would come down to save this 'record material world dwelling sufferer' :)
all glories to you for asking these questions, thank you, i hope i have answered clearly.
Hare Krsna :)

[Sonia]

Dear Friends......

Sex.....or Unrestricted sex? What would you like to choose? Swami Vivekanand ones mentioned "Everything beyond limit is poison".

Well, in Bhagvatam, "Unrestricted sex" is mentioned as Kali(the evil).

Rest is up to us!

Peace & Harmony
Sonia

[NAVIN PATEL]

Please accept my sincere Hare Krishna
I have read with intrest several contributions here.
What I am trying to find out on this forum is WHAT KRISHNA TALKED
And as I know only authentic philosophical evidence is Bhagvat Geeta
Why not we talk on what Krishna Talked
Every individual querry has been answered by Krishna
Let us interprete the concerned verses on subject and broaden our understanding.
Way of thinking,Way of life and Way of Worship that is what really matters.
My Guru is Krishna.
Krishnam Vande Jagat Gurum................

[madhu]

Gauranga

actually NOWHERE will we find that the soul returns after one birth ,this is nonsense,actually most of cherry's words are nonsense he/she is an offender and best avoided. really quite disgusting ! beware !

Instead of this mean hearted post - why don't you explain why you think Cherry is wrong? Why the personal attack?

Also, are you really sure that your statement is absolutely correct? "Nowhere" is a very bold statement. If you are really sure of this, then please explain it instead of attacking. Please give references from sastra.

[Damodar]

"really quite disgusting !"

Please, prabhu, refrain from making such personal, inflamatory remarks.

These kinds of statements can only lead to sorrow, confusion, and defending - all symptoms of kali-yuga.

Perhaps you do not agree with the person. That is fine - but why serve-up more kali-yuga, rather than give service, and clarify by giving better knowledge?

Disagreement can lead to discussion, and even eventual understanding.

Making angry, attacking statements about a person are unnecessary, impolite, and ingracious. This is not the mild and humble behavior of a devotee.

Sincerely,
Damodara dasa

[/url]

[DavyBoy]

[quote="madhu"]actually NOWHERE will we find that the soul returns after one birth ,this is nonsense,actually most of cherry's words are nonsense he/she is an offender and best avoided. really quite disgusting ! beware
quote]

You are a plonker madhu, most of what Cherry says is backed by Sastra.

I find this one birth issue interesting.

davyboy.

[cherry]

sorry madhu
i did start off when i answered his questions with ...
"Nicholas, Hare Krsna, i noticed your questions went unanswered, so i will tell you the limited knowledge i have on this subject, if i am wrong about something, someone please jump in and correct."

you could of just told me what you think i said wrong ...
about the one birth thing, i just remember hearing that when soul falls, first birth is on brahmaloka, and most go back to spiritual world from there .. maybe i'm wrong, sorry.
'shant' say anything again that i can't back up,
you guys are too heavy for me anyway, i should probably just say nothing and leave you to it

[madhu]

i don't 'think'. no mean-heartedness, someone insults my guru, i get angry. any other reaction is suicide, although i see offending gurus is all the fashion around here.why don't you chastise those who offend Srila Prabhupada's siksha guru, i wonder. Jai ISKCON Ki Jai

i don't 'think'. no mean-heartedness, someone insults my guru, i get angry. any other reaction is suicide, although i see offending gurus is all the fashion around here.why don't you chastise those who offend Srila Prabhupada's siksha guru, i wonder. Jai ISKCON Ki Jai

You also have the option to defeat anyone you feel has offended your guru by discussion and if the person continues to disturb you then you can leave.

Well, Madhu, if Cherry really said something that upset you then the more Vaisnava (and adult) way to have handled it would have been to have said something along the lines of:

"Cherry, I do not appreciate what you have said and this is why....".

Now would you like to answer my question and provide some quotes to back up your statement.

And Madhu, there were actual very real multiple maha-offenses made on this forum at the Lotus Feet of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

But you let that slip past you without saying a single word. Shame on you.

[madhu]

[quote=madhu]
You are a plonker madhu, most of what Cherry says is backed by Sastra.

I find this one birth issue interesting.

davyboy.

wow that's very sastric..(ur silly attack) Do u think THIS is the place for sexual terminology ? very poor !
one life to develope pure bhakti , is it so cheap? and everyone ?

[madhu]

And Madhu, there were actual very real multiple maha-offenses made on this forum at the Lotus Feet of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

But you let that slip past you without saying a single word. Shame on you.

Gentlemen, the offering of such an homage as has been arranged this evening to the acaryadeva is not a sectarian concern, for when we speak of the fundamental principle of gurudeva or acaryadeva, we speak of something that is of universal application. There does not arise any question of discrirninating my guru from yours or anyone else's.

There is only one guru, who appears in an infinity of forrns to teach you, me and all others.
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada The Harmonist in 1936

[DavyBoy]

madhu, you started slinging the mud first, and plonker has nothing to do with sexual phrases, but i see it has been erased, so others feel the way i do, your remarks to Cherry i mean,

Hare Krishna.david

actually NOWHERE will we find that the soul returns after one birth ,this is nonsense!

Also, are you really sure that your statement is absolutely correct? "Nowhere" is a very bold statement. If you are really sure of this, then please explain it instead of attacking. Please give references from sastra.

Why have you chosen to ignore this request? You said it, now prove it.

[madhu]

i said nowhere can u findit written that the jiva takes one birth in the material world and then returns home. AND u want me to prove to u ,where it ISN'T written...? that's ridiculous.
santa claus doesn't exist ,but i cannae prove it though,we just grow up, i guess? also this is not a popularity contest is it ? (davy)

i said nowhere can u findit written that the jiva takes one birth in the material world and then returns home. AND u want me to prove to u ,where it ISN'T written...? that's ridiculous.
santa claus doesn't exist ,but i cannae prove it though,we just grow up, i guess? also this is not a popularity contest is it ? (davy)

If it isn't written then where did you learn this? I am curious to know. If this is not in sastra then how did you come to this conclusion?

:lol: From sex to Santa Claus! :lol:

What a thread! Heh!! http://www.gaudiya-repercussions.com/style_emoticons/default/smpopcrn.gif

Krsna extinguished my cravings almost immediately.
There is some suffering, austerity, but nothing compared to life separate from Krsna and his devotees.
are you serious ? if you are then you are now a pure devotee,so All Glories 2 you , can i receive initiation from you, coz i'm getting nowhere and i've been chanting for years..take care brother,the no 1 fall down is pride and faultfindind :evil:

What brought this on Madhu?

[madhu]

Bhakta Ray said..." I just took up chanting again a couple of weeks ago. I was drinking half a bottle of wine everyday,xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx eating chicken and fish. Krsna extinguished my cravings almost immediately.
There is some suffering, austerity, but nothing compared to life separate from Krsna and his devotees."

i only meant to joke with him.....(a couple of weeks !?)

i see this was not good. i should have encouraged him, instead i made fun ( i was hoping it would have a good effect )
macho conditioning (mine) me thinks, so i do seriously apologise to you Bhakta Ray ,if you read this, and i hope you're doing well and happy in your seva . .Dandavats
Jai Sri Sri Guru & Gauranga

[Serpent]

I agree that relationships are holy and spiritual under Krishna. I believe love should be respected and ordained under Krishna.

Comments?

[Amrish]

Well then i'm sorry to say but i think you are missing something entirely. I would explain it to you, but I think its impossible to explain to someone who doesn't want to, or who refuses to, consider sex is an act of love.[/quote]

PAMHO

' Sex is an act of love ' , from my understanding this is your belief. I would think that you have an understanding of the difference between the body and the soul but sex is a bodily desire in itself. It does not provide satisfaction to the soul. Therefore Rukmini devi dasi is correct in her argument that sex is for procreation only. Also the love that we have or believe that we have is only a perverted reflection of the pure love that we once had for the Supreme Person, Krsna. And to re awaken that love should be the sole purpose of our lives !

[mathuranath das]

Srimad Bhagavatam states that the whole material creation is founded upon and moving under the sexual impulse. Its the basic drive behind material existence and there's no denying it. Few are able to abstain from it completely so regulated behaviour is helpful in redirecting it and offering it up as an act of devotion. As Lord Krsna states: I am sex desire not contrary to religious principles. Progress means elimination and new acceptance, and those who begin to regulate their lives according to revealed truth are theists, devotees and actually civilized.

Devotees who deeply recognize the immense value of Krsna Consciousness and love their Gurudeva sometimes tend to appear to be uncomprimising and almost fanatically closed minded to the uninitiated. Rukmini Didi obviously has deep appreciation for Srila Prabhupad and his instructions...Which as she correctly stated are indeed the instructions of a pure devotee, a mahabhagavat and jagat Guru. We are improved by honoring His directives above the opinions and speculations of the material conditoned persons of this world. He was uniquely empowered by Lord Nityananda to spread the Sankirtan Movement throughout the world fullfilling Mahaprabhu's prophesy that His name would be chanted in every town and village. My Guru Maharaj was the one who first identified Srila Prabhupad as "Shaktyavesa Avatar", and as an empowered representitive of the Lord, Srila Prabhupad's instructions hold a very high and absolute position in the guidance of those who follow after Him...aspiring in the line of Krsna Consciousness. Its to be expected.

Srila Prabhupad's Spiritual Master Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur fulfilled the vision of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur by, as My Guru Maharaj stated- single handedly "declaring totalitarian war on Maya...and even all other conceptions of religion" He fought hard to re-establish the dignity and purity of Krsna Consciousness, because at that time (the early part of the last century) Vaishnavism had been degraded by many apa-sampradayas who smoked ganja and had sex in the name of Krsna Consciousness.

Srila Prabhupad carried that powerful and dignified mood to the West and directly attacted the so called "Western Civilization" of meat eating, drinking, loose sexuality and the rest. He selflessly worked so hard at an advanced age to give us something so high and noble and to lift us out of the lower modes of nature. So you can see that for devotees who love Srila Prabhupad there is little comprimise in thier attempt to follow His instructions.

But Srila Prabhupad was Himself very compassionate and lenient in the begining with His young followers in the mid to late 60's. But once the mission was established and many books were printed and temples established he raised the standard seeing that the devotees had matured a bit. And the results were amazing because the devotees became so powerfull in their surrender to a pure devotee.

If we look at it energetically, Srila Prabhupad was trying to move our consciousness out of the lower modes and into transcendental devotion. In the realm of misconception its not remarkable that few can follow such directions. The really wonderful thing is that anyone would actually want to even try!! If someone tries to do that sincerely, whether or not they are actually successful, they will progress and recieve the blessing of Sri Guru and Krsna. It will be unique to the life an circumstances of each individual, however the standard stated by the pure devotee or Guru should be honored, either by practicing it, or if one cannot properly follow it at least mentally honor it by accepting it as the high standard and admitting that " I cannot follow properly, but I respect it" Lord Krsna explains that this mood will be beneficial and very soon one will rise to the standard by being sincere and pure in our objective, not by our own iron-jawed will power but by Mercy from above or Divine Grace. It is a gift of Grace. And we should all aspire for it.

In this connection there is a wonderful and sweet sloka that gives us so much hope in our practicing life. It's from the high scripture prapana-jivanamrta (nectar in the lives of the surrendered souls verses 9.43 to 46

labdha -shuddha-bhakta-bijasya....

" For one who recieves the seed of devotion, who is selfless and penitent, denouncing his inability to abandon mundane enjoyment despite realizing it to be the embodiment of suffering, and who sincerely gives himself incessantly to all the practices of devotion- in the heart of such a devotee, the Supreme Lord ascends like the rising sun to annihilate all ignorance with its reactions, revealing His Divine Personality in all its pristine glory."

Devotees should be compassionate and friendly and open to discuss these matters for it is just this type of relevant dialog that helps to mature our conception and assist us in sharing this most valuable Krsna Consciousness in a loving way with those that are not yet so familiar with it.
Srimad Bhagavatam 3.25.21 says: takishava karunika surida sarva dehinam- " The symptoms of a sadhu (devotee) are that he/she is tolerant, merciful, and freindly to all living beings."

Through affection, mercy and service, Krsna Consciousness is communicated from one devotee to another.

I appologize for being so long winded...please all of you dear souls accept my dandavat pranams.

There appears to be a lot of confusion about sex & love. This confusion has been to a great extent promoted by some groups having vested interests.

Sex is not love. How can it be ? Sex is a desire to satisfy your sense organ like any other subjects of sense organs. I saw a beautiful girl & I fell in love (to have sex) with her ... this statement is as false as this ... I saw a fat Chicken today & fell in love ( to eat) with it ! You cannot love where you want one for satisfying your own needs. You want to satisfy your sexual urges in the garb of love, you want to exloit him/her for your own interests. This is anything but love, for God's sake.

The person who could not control his desires has just wasted his life. This doesn't mean that one should totally abstain from Sex or satisfying one's desires. No, that is not Karma Yoga that Lord Krishna teaches. Denying "bhogas" (indulging in satisfying the urges of sense organs) to sense organs forcefully without actually conquering them is falsehood & is of no value. All "bhogas" merge into a Karma Yogi in a natural way like a river merging into the sea. The key is not succumbing to cravings. Craving should not guide us. We should control the sense organs - the sense organs should not be allowed to control us.

[judas]

Cockroaches have sex, so does "everyone", but the cockroach is merely trying to scratch an itch that wont go away. i humbly suggest that MR & Mrs cockroach are not intending to raise little Jack and Jane in a Krsna Conscious way. If i'm wrong, and there are any exceptions to this rule, i would love you to post a mssge on this forum.
(We're not cock-roachist here.)

Sex is only Divine, when it is practised by the divine, for THE Divine, and to try and serve the divine.

All else is just making more cockroaches (no offense)

[Kaunteya das]

I may be new here but I am know a little on the subject. Some of my best friends took sannyas in the seventies, and then married, then took sannyas again. I simply stayed married from the age of 20 to the same girl and we had 9 children. I was and still am in love with her and deeply committed to our spiritual devotional marriage.

In mid 70's a friend of mine was sitting with Srila Prabhupada in Vrindavan with quite a few big sannyasis. It was expected that my friend would be asking for sannyas and instead he asked to marry. His sannyas friends were shocked, as many came to him later and said they would have preferred to marry. Srila Prabhupada simply smiled and said, "Very nice, you are honest, you should marry." He did and although that wife left he again remarried another devotee and is happily married still.

Srila Prabhupada established the highest standard for a marriage. I do not know any married couples who have gone straight to that standard from day one and stayed together. It is a gradual process.

Gradually as your wife grows through her 20's 30's 40's 50's 60's and beyond, realisations become established. Her physical beauty is gone but her devotional beauty is a joy.

A deep love develops for practising bhakti together, reading Krsna stories to each other, chanting on the roof together, walking around Tulsi devi together. It is sweet and it all happens in due course, provided you stay together.

In the 1980's my wife was fortunate to be the one who posed for this painting. On her lap she held our son who was 2 years old. We had chanted 50 rounds to conceive him. Now when I look at this image I can see both my wife and my son and Krsna and His Mother.

http://radhe.net/wallpapers/photos/0103_BTG%2018-12%20p2.jpg


However the material mind will divorce the old one and marry a younger one. The best part of marriage is then missed.

My greatest lesson would arrive in 2005. After 38 years of absolute bliss together, my beautiful wife lost her health and I watched as her body became a skeleton. She lost all her condition, I carried her to the bathroom. I sat with her 24/7 for months.

Then the old friend from Vrindavan contacted us and told us how he had migrated to Australia and bought a house near us.

His wife was a dear friend of Ulupi's and she brought the bedsheet Srila Prabhupada lay on in Vrindavan as he was leaving his body. Ulupi was the next person to lie on that sheet. In addition our friend had preserved a beautiful garland of flowers worn by Srila Prabhupada in the late 70's in a silk wrap and we placed this on Ulupi.

In the end all she could do was smile faintly at me and whisper Radhe-Radhe-Krsna-Krsna.

This is the reward of a wonderful marriage. Srila Prabhupada even arranged those beautiful little details to be present when she passed away. Many sannyasis and Holy man and Himalayan yogis and Tibetan lamas came to visit Ulupi in her final days. I remember one saying,

"Sitting here for 2 hours doing a puja for Ulupi brings more realizations than reading a thousand books."

The road of Krsna Bhakti was for us one of being the married couple. We accepted all the children that came and we worked hard for them. We took them to India and they know they were born to deeply loving parents. This is how they understand our love for dancing and singing and feasting.

On Ulupi's first anniversary of her dissappearance day last week, they all got together themselves and produced a wonderful feast and gave thanks for such a beautiful mother.

Radhe-Radhe-Krsna-Krsna

Kaunteya das

[sridatta1]

Sex used only for procreating god-conscious individuals is Prabhupada's standard.Is that correct? :roll:

Sex and Love

The gross body is inert and is like a cloth of the soul. Sex is the momentary happiness that is experienced by the physical touch of the two inert gross bodies. People use the word ‘love’ for sex. Love is the quality of subtle body (the inner item), which is made of qualities. Sex is the physical action of the gross body, like hunger, thirst etc., which is a biological function. Sex (kama) is related to body and love (Prema) is related to mind. Body and mind are mutually linked. Both sex and love are created by God for the divine work of reproduction of souls (dharma) which is the essential basis of His divine drama. All this is the issue between two souls only. After death, both sex and love disappear because even the recognition of the other soul does not exist any more. The love towards God is called as Bhakti, which is eternal, because the bond with God is eternal. Love is not eternal as it is limited to this birth only.

At the Lotus Feet of His Holiness Sri Dattaswami

Anil Antony

www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace
antonyanil@universal-spirituality.org

[amit1947]

Hello everybody, this is my first post on this forum, and I thought this thread would be most appropriate to post in. First I would like to state that I fully agree with Rukmini-Devi dasi's comments about the binding nature of sex/love. I have personally experienced this and continue to feel the ill effects of the material attachment even after the end of the relationship (not marriage). Sex is indeed one of the best feelings in the world and I can personally vouch for this but in the end, it is a hollow act. I can truly appreciate the shastra when it identifies sexual attachment as the most difficult material attachment to destroy. I went into the relationship thinking we would get married but that never materialized, perhaps partly because of my religious nature and her atheistic beliefs. Now I have been crushed by the turn of events, going from being loved (and loving) by a girl to feeling utterly alone. I now am desperately trying to "kick the habbit" and finally control my sexual urges, in the hopes of advancing onto the spiritual platform. I hope to derive some good association from this forum and I sincerly wish to contribute positively. I humbly request the enlightened members of this forum for advice on the matters of controling my sexual urges and detaching emotionally from this girl.

[sridatta1]

Hello everybody, this is my first post on this forum, and I thought this thread would be most appropriate to post in. First I would like to state that I fully agree with Rukmini-Devi dasi's comments about the binding nature of sex/love. I have personally experienced this and continue to feel the ill effects of the material attachment even after the end of the relationship (not marriage). Sex is indeed one of the best feelings in the world and I can personally vouch for this but in the end, it is a hollow act. I can truly appreciate the shastra when it identifies sexual attachment as the most difficult material attachment to destroy. I went into the relationship thinking we would get married but that never materialized, perhaps partly because of my religious nature and her atheistic beliefs. Now I have been crushed by the turn of events, going from being loved (and loving) by a girl to feeling utterly alone. I now am desperately trying to "kick the habbit" and finally control my sexual urges, in the hopes of advancing onto the spiritual platform. I hope to derive some good association from this forum and I sincerly wish to contribute positively. I humbly request the enlightened members of this forum for advice on the matters of controling my sexual urges and detaching emotionally from this girl.


Sex and love between two souls


The Veda shows the two ways. One is Pravrutti and the other is Nivrutti. In Pravrutti, the Veda advises the soul to marry for reproduction (prajatantum…), which is divine mission only. In Nivrutti, the Veda asks the soul to do the work of God without marriage (yadahareva virajet…) because the soul is not interested in any other thing except God. Ofcourse, marriage and reproduction of the souls coming from the upper world and training them with good devotion to God is also divine work. The momentary selfish happiness present in sex is not considered, because it does not persist afterwards. Thus it is participation of two souls like two colleagues in a job.

The third soul takes a body out of it and appears here with its own line of destiny. The third soul is like a new trainee employee for the divine mission. Even the Lord needs parents to come in human form to uplift the humanity. If the divine purpose of reproduction is absent, God would have not created the sex and love between two souls. Without realising this divine mission, the three employees forget the job and the employer and develops liking to each other, which intensifies into blind foolishness called as ‘Moha’.

In Jaimini Bharatam, there is a story that tells that in his kingdom, people think Lord even during their copulation in the nights. This means that they are remembering the purpose of the sex in the service of God. If this divine goal is realised, one need not feel shy and hide sex feeling as if it is a sin. This divine purpose is reminded by the sculpture that shows the union of couple on the walls of the sacred temples. The present westerners and ancient Indians do not feel shy about the sex and are frank without hiding the feelings regarding it. One need not magnify it and keep it as secret like divine knowledge (Brahma Jnanam).

When you are doing some work in the job, you forget it and go home peacefully. Shankara had to indulge in sex to defeat the wife of Mandana Misra in the knowledge of Kama Shastra. He forgot it and never carried on the feelings about it, because His mind was not on it. He replied to Goddess Saraswati the same and told that He was pure while climbing the throne of ‘Sarvajna Peetha’. When some devotees asked Me about the sex affair of a great saint, I asked them ‘why don’t you see the great works done by him?

Are these silly things need any mention, which are just the biological functions? Why do you magnify them, which are not worth of even thinking? When you see a picture do you see the excretion of hero in the lavatory? Why such scenes are not shot? Only the great works done by the hero are mentioned on the screen. A Nobel prize is not given to a person who controlled sex, which is also not denied to a great person because he could not control sex’.

At the Lotus Feet of His Holiness Sri Dattaswami

Anil Antony

www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace
antonyanil@universal-spirituality.org

[JK Hauraki]

To Kaunteya das,


What a beautiful story, I thanks you so much for sharing!

I have this picture, it was always beautiful to me. Hare Krishna!