Lord Krishna Forum - Krishna Talk

mathuranath das · Joined: 25 Mar 2006 Posts: 20

Dear Abhishek,
You have good questions. However, your name causes me to suspect you are a devotee merely posing as a "christians" advocate...Growing up as a Catholic I also had many questions regarding Christ & Krishna and it is good for us to explore the similarities and differences between them. However, there are many social and historical factors, especially in regard to Christianity that distort the facts and our understanding. Krsna Conciousness comes down to us in an unbroken chain of disciplic succession in the Vedic culture. Both systems are what would be termed devotional theism and have many similarities....like a personal conception of God, the use of prayer beads, images, prasadam & the Holy Eucarist. There are even many parallels in the lives of both Krsna and Christ that have caused suspicion amongst scholars as to whether the life of Jesus was modeled after the pastimes of Krsna who lived 3,000 years before. (Please see the article attatched at the end of this post.) All that aside, Religious reformers like Jesus teach according to time, place and circumstance, desha kala patra. They give what is appropriate to the developement of the people at the time. Jesus Himself said that there was much more He could tell but they were not ready to hear. The minor details may vary but the bigger message is the same. To awaken the individual soul (jiva) to its natural position of Love of God (Iswara or Bhagavan). Jesus was in love of God in the rasa or mood or flavor of Love called Vatsalya rasa. Parental Love. God The Father. Krsna, being the Supreme Lord exibited all the rasa's with His devotees according to thier porportionate love for Him. With His parents and children He exhibited this vatsalya rasa, with the cowherd boys and Arjuna He exhibited Sakya rasa, friendship. with His wives, Svakiya-madhurya rasa, married love and with the Gopis He exchanged Parakiya Madhura rasa, paramour Love. But this Love is not the mundane bodily "love" or rather lust of this world. In sanskit language it is called "Prema". Which means a transcendental wholly self-giving, self sacrificing, non material affection between the individual soul and the supreme soul. There is no comparison in this world and its is very difficult for us to understand because we are addicted to bodily lust. Krsna is completely above these things. Krsna says in the Gita 7.13
Tribur guna mayar bhavair..."Deluded by the three modes of nature the whole world knows me not. Who am above the modes and inexhaustable.
Krsna is Para-brahman. The supreme spirit above the three conditioned modes of nature (goodness, passion,& ignorance) which cover us so heavily like clouds..Krsna is anti-material, ie: aprakrta, meaning without material qualities, but infinitely potent with unlimited spiritual qualities and power. He is the supreme Autocrat. Evereything exists by Him and for His satisfaction alone, so there can never be any wrong doing on His part. Mundane morality is not applicable to Him. His every action benefits us, because He is absolute and absolute goodness. Christ is His devotee in the relationship of son. Srila Sridhar Maharaj elaborately explains the position of Christianity in relation to Krsna Consciousness in His book. "The Search for Sri Krsna, Reality the Beautiful." in that book you'll find a nice chapter with many explanations to your questions. Please see the website http://www.scsmath.com
Srila Prabhupad gave a nice talk in one of the early BTG magazines called "Krsna, Kristos, Christ showing the etemological origin of Christianity in Krsna Consciousness and the article below deals directly with that. I hope you find this helpful.
My dandavat pranam to you.

©1997-2005 VNN

EDITORIAL
December 25, 2005 VNN8884

From Christ To Chrishna
BY DHARMAPADA DAS
EDITORIAL, Dec 25 (VNN) — A Book Review
Raymond Bernard's From Christ to Chrishna is a book from the past which has made its appearance again. It seems to have first been published by Health Research in 1961, although the forward by the author is dated 1959 and the copyright dates from 1966. The book has recently been reproduced by Health Research.
http://www.healthresearchbooks.com/
The name Raymond Bernard is said by Dennis Crenshaw to be an alias for the surname Sigmeister. Dennis has extensively researched this author because of his other writings, writings on the hollow earth theory. For example, Bernard penned the book Agharta, on the Tibetan underground, and most notably The Hollow Earth, which has become a standard-bearer for the hollow earth community.
Right from the very beginning, From Christ to Chrishna establishes that the teachings of Krishna are the origin of Christianity. The book explains that Apollonius of Tyana had studied in the Himalayas and that he returned and introduced these teachings to the Essenes, who became the first "Chrishn-ins", later Christians. It brings to our attention that the writings of Apollonius were re-written and plagiarized by Roman churchmen at the Council of Nicea three centuries later. In the fourth century, A.D., Hierocles accused the Christian priesthood of this plagiary and of inventing a messiah by combining the name of the Druid sun god, Iesus, from the Western half of Constantine's Roman empire with the name Chrishna, from the Eastern half, which had become corrupted to Christ by that time.
In order to provide historical justification, the book explains how a Jewish religious teacher from Jehoshua Ben Pandira was selected, and why a young Essene who had been crucified, Jeshai Beth Halachmee, became incorporated into the story.
The book adds authority to its assertions by interpreting the research of academicians from the past, such as J.M. Roberts, who authored the book Antiquity Unveiled; Reverend Robert Taylor, who authored Diegesis; Moor, the author of Hindu Pantheon; Gerald Massey, of The Natural Genesis Godfrey Higgins who wrote Analcalypsis and Professor Hilton Hotema, among others.
From Christ to Chrishna acknowledges the book Monumental Christianity as the source of the illustrations which it contains.
Bernard utilizes comparison as a device for establishing that the birth of Christ originates from the older, Sanskrit-documented narration of the birth of Krishna, as found in the Puranas. Shree Krishna, for example, was born in Mathura but taken to a pastoral setting just after birth- Christ was ready to be born in the larger city of Nazareth but taken to a pastoral setting just before he was born. At birth, the devatas showered flowers and sang hymns in glorification of the baby Krishna, just as it is related in relation to the angels and Christ in the Gospel of Luke. After His birth, Shree Krishna was visited by a wise man, the sage Narada Muni who foretold his future according to the alignment of stars at the time. This is similar to the way in which Jesus was visited by the Magi who had followed a star in the heavens in order to find him, and who also foretold of His future glory.
In the natal story of both Shree Krishna and Christ it is told that the regent ordered the death of all male children bon during that period- in the birth story of Shree Krishna, the regent's name was Kamsa. In the birth story of Christ, it was Herod. Bernard quotes Sir William Jones, a respected Sanskrit scholar, in this regard: "That the name of Krishna and the general outline of his story were long anterior to the birth of our Savior, and probably to the time of Homer, we know very certainly ." There is much, much more along these lines.
Whether or not the reader accepts every last shred of evidence, and every last explanation by Bernard is immaterial. Bernard presents a scope which is broad enough to substantiate the Krishna origins of Christianity.
It is almost ironic that when this book was written, the Indian/Hindu immigration into North America had not yet taken place. Even the Indian population of Great Britain was not what it is today. Even so, the book is very appropriate for the bookshelf of any current follower of Vedic dharma as it provides orientation in a Christian world which can be aggressive at times.
Written by Dean Dominic De Lucia/Dharmapada Das
This writer welcomes comments and questions: deandddd@uol.com.br
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Serpent · Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:44 am Post subject:

precious 54 wrote: You are so wrong about Jesus and ignorant of the truth..please don't speak of things you know nothing about...Jesus was love come to man in a human body ..He came at that time in history as the messiah of the jews..He did nothing but show love ,he healed the sick ,even could calm the sea..walk on water..he died a horrible and painfull death because of people who would not understand..evil people that called themselves holy men...Jesus came from God to help the lost and wicked people ,he died for the sins of the world..God made a way for people to come back to God thru his love and mercy on the cross...that whosoever believeth on him would not perish but have everlasting life in heaven...It doesn't matter what religion you are Jesus Loves you and is still God yesterday, today, and tomarrow...I have seen many lives changed because of Jesus ..I for one can testify to a total life change because of Jesus...Please do not speak badly of the greatest gift that God, Krishna, has given to mankind...Praise his Holy Name..The lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world through his precious blood shed on a cross at calvery.....It may be that because it was happening in a different location at that time in history that you may have never heard of Jesus as the saviour..but it is so true regardless of who believes it or not..

What is your faith?

Also Jesus may have done those things in Christian eyes but when I have read the bible I see a religion of fear who threatens others who do not think like them.

I respect Christians from a far but do not see them anything like Hinduism.

Jesus like his father preached hell and damnation on those who didn't come to him.

precious 54 · Joined: 25 Feb 2006 Posts: 7 Location: Tunkhannock, PA

Dear serpent,My faith is in God ,Krishna and Jesus I seek Truth and knowledge of God where ever it may be found in what ever the name of the religion we are all searching for the TRUTH and that is all I am trying to tell you ...not to cause any hurt..I just want to clear up the misconceptions if I could...maybe I could tell you of my Quest for Truth ..It is found in Holy Scriptures...The Bible ..THe Bagavad Gita..and other true Holy Books...If you dig deep in the Word It is a treasure to be found..That God is LOVE...The Hell and Damnation are this material life of pain and sorrow...Jesus was sent from God's Love to give us a way to return to heaven ..He was a sacrifice a Holy sacrifice for man to have a way back to God for man is so sinful and evil, man could not see the Love that was Jesus in the form of human flesh like you and me...he only warned the people to see in a way they could understand at that time...they didn't know about reincarnation or Krishna they were Jews.. we know much more today..but the fact remains the same Jesus is God ....Krishna is also the Supreme Personality opf Godhead....do you see what Imean???

Serpent · Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 12:45 am Post subject:

precious 54 wrote: Dear serpent,My faith is in God ,Krishna and Jesus I seek Truth and knowledge of God where ever it may be found in what ever the name of the religion we are all searching for the TRUTH and that is all I am trying to tell you ...not to cause any hurt..I just want to clear up the misconceptions if I could...maybe I could tell you of my Quest for Truth ..It is found in Holy Scriptures...The Bible ..THe Bagavad Gita..and other true Holy Books...If you dig deep in the Word It is a treasure to be found..That God is LOVE...The Hell and Damnation are this material life of pain and sorrow...Jesus was sent from God's Love to give us a way to return to heaven ..He was a sacrifice a Holy sacrifice for man to have a way back to God for man is so sinful and evil, man could not see the Love that was Jesus in the form of human flesh like you and me...he only warned the people to see in a way they could understand at that time...they didn't know about reincarnation or Krishna they were Jews.. we know much more today..but the fact remains the same Jesus is God ....Krishna is also the Supreme Personality opf Godhead....do you see what Imean???

I do not see what you see. The hell Jesus preached was eternal hell in a dimension of everlasting suffering on the non-believers.

nekozuki · Joined: 05 Mar 2006 Posts: 3 Location: Shreveport,La

serpent wrote:
I do not see what you see. The hell Jesus preached was eternal hell in a dimension of everlasting suffering on the non-believers.

This is a logical answer. Why would God send people to eternal hell because they did not acknowledge Jesus as the only savior of mankind, I can count numerous saviours. All religions have miracles and truth to them although with Christianity the whole eternal hell and Satan is debatable. In fact, realistically and in the Jewish scriptures Jesus does not fit the Messiah description at all. Christianity is well on it's way out if it keeps up the aggressiveness and more and more people unlock it's secrets.

Any God who sends people to eternal hell is not a God that I worship.

precious 54 · Joined: 25 Feb 2006 Posts: 7 Location: Tunkhannock, PA

You don't know what you are talking about....you critisize what you don't understand......and christianity is not at all on it's way out....

Radian · Joined: 28 Jun 2005 Posts: 19 Location: NEW YORK , USA

All the Gods of every religion is the same as Lord Krishna says in the Bhagavad-Gita chapter 9.24 Those who are devottes of other gods and who worship them with faith actually worship only me,O son of Kunti,but they do so in a wrong way. We have to accept all religions i mean by their God if we cant accept this then there is no peace

varadaraja sharma · Joined: 31 Mar 2006 Posts: 53

Radhe Krishna,

I know about christianity only on hearsay but I myself read Shrimad Bhagavatham. First let me submit a few corrections. As per Shrimad Bhagavatham lord had 16008 wives and shri narada saw for himself god performing his Grhastha Dharma in all the 16008 households. The names of sons of god krishna are mentioned in Dashama skanda - Utharardha. I am sorry my dear friends - the name of Jesus appear nowhere. It is nowhere mentioned in our shasthras that Jesus was the son of Lord Krishna for one thing.

I heard the following things about christianity.

That only those who believe in the god christians whom they call YHVH would go to eternal heaven and all else would end up in eternal hell.

Their god is formless and their scriptures strictly proohibit worship of any idols

Same I came to know about Islam. The right and wrong about these things can be explained only by those who have mastery in Bible

and what shasthras says:

"Aakashaath pathitam thoyam yatha gachathi saagaram
Sarva deva namaskaraha keshavam prathigachathi"

like the waters of rivers ultimately reach its final destination, the ocean, the obeisance one pays to any devatha would ultimately reach the God Keshava.
here I won't say demigod - because I strictly believe in the oneness of god- and I do not buy the theory of demi and semi gods- kimpurusha, yaksha, gandharva and devatha these are all mentioned in shasthras as species which are more powerful than human beings - I dont know how anybody raises the status of devathas to the level of god - and thereafter divide the godhood into demigods and godhead et all - devathas are simply devathas - no no no no - not at all not at all not at all they can never be given a prefix of god. that is blasphemy.

Radhe Krishna

varadaraja sharma · Joined: 31 Mar 2006 Posts: 53

Radhe krishna,

In the last post the last word "blasphemy" was inadvertantly used by me and that is regretted. it should have been "inappropriate". Sorry for the error. With the discussion on Islam & Christianity, a jargon which is specifically used by them was inappropriately used by me.

Regarding 16000 wives married by lord krishna, the reference can be looked at Dashama Skanda - utharardha - 59th adyaya - shloka - 33. The names of sons and grandsons of lord are given in adyaya are given in 61th adyaya of dashama skanda.

Radhe Krishna.

precious 54 · Joined: 25 Feb 2006 Posts: 7 Location: Tunkhannock, PA

Peace my dear Krishna devotees,I think you should know I mean you no harm I too love Krishna...I was at the very first Krishna temple in NYC when Srila Prabhupadda first brought the sweet message of Krishna to the USA....i have much love for Krishna......I do not understand all this different religions and stuff I only know what i have personally have experenced in my very small life....i have seen personally the power of the Love of Krishna as the beautiful devotees worshiped Krishna at the temple in NYC personally was very young 17 yrs. old I am now 51yrs. old I was a foolish girl got mixed up in the material world of drugs and sex etc ...many years of sin ....when about 20 yrs..ago I heard about Jesus Christ.... I was hooked on heron....Jesus delivered me from this hell...so I know Jesus is real......years later i gott back into a life of forgettfulness i stoped walking the spiritual path once again....I then became so manic depressed and I had no will to live...this went on for years.......I was a walking dead person......Then I started reading the bible and met Jesus again He came into my life in a new way.....he is my saviour from depressiion.....I still had this Love for Krishna because when ever I would hear something about Krishna my heart would leap for joy.....I know Jesus is real and I know Krishna is real dear devotees ....Love is Love isn't it my sweet devotees????

Serpent · Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:25 pm Post subject:

precious 54 wrote: You don't know what you are talking about....you critisize what you don't understand......and christianity is not at all on it's way out....

Tell that to the millions upon millions who have died in martyrdom for the sake of Christianity.

Also let us not forget the the religion of Islam it too teaches hate and intolerance.

Serpent · Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:27 pm Post subject: Re: the God of Christianity

nekozuki wrote: serpent wrote:
I do not see what you see. The hell Jesus preached was eternal hell in a dimension of everlasting suffering on the non-believers.

This is a logical answer. Why would God send people to eternal hell because they did not acknowledge Jesus as the only savior of mankind, I can count numerous saviours. All religions have miracles and truth to them although with Christianity the whole eternal hell and Satan is debatable. In fact, realistically and in the Jewish scriptures Jesus does not fit the Messiah description at all. Christianity is well on it's way out if it keeps up the aggressiveness and more and more people unlock it's secrets.

Any God who sends people to eternal hell is not a God that I worship.

You are right.

nekozuki · Joined: 05 Mar 2006 Posts: 3 Location: Shreveport,La

precious 54 wrote: You don't know what you are talking about....you critisize what you don't understand......and christianity is not at all on it's way out....

FYI, I was once a Christian until I realized that everytime I walked out of the church, I felt like a piece of trash on the side of the road. Then I decided I'm going to read up on other religions and see if they're as bad as the Christian Church is saying. Paganism was interesting, it's nature worship which has nothing to do with the Devil, but it wasn't enough for me to become a pagan. Then I came across Hinduism and started reading the Vedas and believing them because it actually makes sense and it touched my heart, in Hinduism I found a loving and caring God and I actually felt like a person. I've been a Hindu ever since.

Let me ask you this:

When I was Christian I had no dreams whatsoever of Jesus, he never appeared in my dreams. Then I switch to Hinduism and I see Vishnu's serpent Shesha. Hmmmmmmmmmmm? A sign that maybe I chose the right religion for me not what someone wanted me to be.

You should choose whatever religion works for you, there is no Satan because God is supreme and logically there can be no Satan to oppose him.

I'm not saying Jesus isn't real or his not a saviour of mankind but the Satan concept is getting a little out of hand. I was told by so called Christian stepmother said that I was going to hell for watching Interview with the Vampire. How irrational can you get. Satan was used to get people to convert, why do you think the early paintings of him resemble the Roman god Pan, to convert.

mathuranathadas · Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:54 am Post subject: same supreme being

surely it is the same supreme being that we are aspiring to approach and by the same means -ie by pleasing him.Surely we can agree that to glorify and serve the supreme being with love will please him.At any moment death may come and in any case life is very short and there are many distractions.A moment lost not glorifying and serving the LOrd cannot be regained.The Lord is in our heart as our dearmost friend,wellwisher and guide, and can give us the intelligence to know what words and actions will please him more than others.Surely if we all pray to the lord for his guidance the poison of missunderstandings between and within religions by his grace can dissapear like magic.No doubt one day we will all be in the eternal abode of the lord lovingley and cooperatively serving and glorifying the lord for ever.Should we try and start now?

chipoffhteoldblock · Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 6:50 am Post subject:

I believe krishna/Godhead/God/Infinate Universe or whatever we wish to call the Almighty is one and the same. Godhead is everything, so why split hairs.
Jesus did not write the bible.....was written after his time and is open to interpretation as are all great works based on scripture.
Was the bible based on scripture, or witness?
Either way, the Bible contains many truths which should not be ridiculed or discounted.
I follow the way of Tantra of which Bhakti Yoga is one of the branches.
Each to their own.....the lord has appeared in many different incarnations at different times. However, time and space are on a different scale in krishna's world, so we should be careful not to insult the divine will of God. Who are we to second guess the almighty.
Jesus was in his time yet another example of the embodiment of the divine will of God/Krishna/Atma. Their were many before and since...
Om Tat Sat