Lord Krishna Forum - Krishna Talk

mathuranath das · Joined: 25 Mar 2006 Posts: 20

In the terminology of Vedic /sanskrit theology, Jesus can be understood as shaktyavesha avatar. That means, one who is empowered by Divinity to act on behalf of Divinity. An agent of the Absolute Reality, or a visa granting officer of the Transcendental world.The Bhagavad-gita describes that periodically (in every yuga or universal epoch) Divinity introduces teachings for the spiritual evolution of mankind. The Lord descends Himself or empowers a qualified soul as in the case of Jesus.

yada yad hi dharmasya
glanir bhavati bharata
abyutanam a dharmasya
tad atmanam sri jamy aham

"Whenever and wherever there is a decline in dharmic practice and a predominat rise of adharma, at that time I descend Myself." BGita 4.7

Dharma means the intrinsic quality of a thing. Like the qualities of heat and light are inseperable from fire, or liquidity is the inseperable quality of water. The dharma of the soul is to love (prema-rasa). All the developed theistic systems in the world teach that we are eternal non-material spiritual (conscious) souls distinct from gross matter. Teachers like Jesus come to awaken our spiritual hearts in love for the Supreme Soul. They don't come to create religious institutions and formalites which breed predjudice. Formal doctrines and institutions are only useful if they foster growth of love in our hearts and self giving and spiritual communion. If the form impedes the flow of spiritual substance in our hearts then we should abandon the form or formality. What is the use of a formal latin or sanskrit prayer if it is recited absent-mindedly or without true feeling and a spirit of self giving on our part? Better is the simple prayer in broken english of a small uneducated child that has true feeling and love. This is the substance of dharma or religion. It simply means the proper adjustment of the individual soul in spiritual love with God the Supreme Soul. If we get hung up on methodology or cultural or ritualistic trappings our progess becomes checked. If we look at the substance of what Jesus taught (or whats left of it...) We get a better understanding of what His purpose was. Deny thyself, self sacrifice for a higher non-material ideal. I like to think also that Jesus was enlightened enough to understand that a higher conception of God would necessarily include the female shakti or Divine Potency, not just an antropomorphic male patriarchial creator diety. The Vedas give us information that above the impersonal unconditioned all accomodating spiritual light of Brahman there exists an infinite variagated beautiful unlimited realm of transcendental spiritual consciousness (vaikuntha - meaning without limit) where God plays in the form of a beautiful child in unlimited loving pastimes with unlimited numbers of liberated souls in both male and female spiritual forms. Jesus said " In my fathers Kingdom there are many mansions"

The miracles that Jesus performed can be understood as yogic siddhis or mystic powers that are obtainable by the practice of the Astangha yoga as delineated by Patanjali in the yoga sutras. Few are qualified to achieve them in this age however they do in fact exist. There is a great body of suppressed evidence that Jesus travelled, lived and studied in Northern India. Please see the book, " Jesus Lived in India". It has a wealth of documented information regarding Jesus, His teachings, travels and the history of Jews in Northern India since the time of Moses. Also the Essene/Gnostic connection offers alternative views of Christ.

Over the centuries Christianity has been adulterated, formalized and used for social and political control. Some of the original concepts like reincarnation and other esoteric knowledge have been omited in favour of a watered down version more sutable for widespread propaganda. However the core of devotional theism remains which is a wonderful teaching and very akin to the Bhakti yoga of Indian devotional theism.... The unfortunate addition of the myopic view that Jesus is the ONLY way is a misconception that breeds intolerance of other forms of faith and spirituality. When He said "I am the way" We interpret that to mean, devotion is the way, My example of self sacrifice, My whole hearted giving of My soul to the Supreme Soul in loving devotional relationship (vatsalya-rasa, ie: God as father, devotee as son) Also "I am the way" can be interpreted as the concept of Guru-tattva. "No one passes to the Father but through Me" This means you must develop your relationship with God through a genuine agent of Divinity. A saint, a guru, ie: a realized individual who is situated in transcendental consciousness and Love of God. By serving such a realized master the disciple also develops bhava (loving spiritual emotions for God). This is a very developed science of theological truth called sampradaya in India. Jesus created sampradaya with His disciples.

Realized persons such as Christ teach according to time place and circumstance. (desha-kala-patra) They deliver teachings that are appropriate to the subjective spiritual evolution of the culture they are dealing with. No doubt He knew more than He revealed. He said: "there are many things you are not ready to hear' But what He did reveal was enough to ignite the hatred of the self-seeking religious hypocrites of His time. He was a beacon of light, and His example of self-sacrifice lives on powerfully to this day. He sacrificed His life so that we might gain faith in the higher eternal conscious Reality. Some will hate the light of Truth (the asuras or gross materialists) but those who love the light (the devas or dharmic & spiritually evolved ) will recognize it and embrace the revelation as a message of love from our spiritual home, no matter what external form it may take or what ethnic culture it may appear in. Jesus is our dearmost friend.

mathuranath das · Joined: 25 Mar 2006 Posts: 20

Thanks for the compliment "Devotee"...But its all Gurudeva's Grace...Not mine.....

I also forgot to mention that there is a wonderful explanation in my Guru Mahaja's book "The Search for Sri Krsna, Reality the Beautiful" where-in He analyzes the ontological position of Christianity in relation to Gaudiya-Vaishnava theology. its a fascinating read- I highly recommend it to all concerned with the ideas and questions posted here. There's an online link at the web address below.

In brief it is that...In Christianity there is the conception of the Trinity. The Father (creator, Brahma) the Son (devotee in vatsalya rasa) and the Holy Ghost (The impersonal all pervading spirit above all). According to this conception, Christianity would possibly lead to Mayavad conception or Brahma -nirvirseha and there is little mention of Rasa beyond vatsalya nor a very clear or developed conception of the nature, form and pastimes of the Supreme Lord. Makes you wonder just where its actually going...? Brahmaloka? The Creator-Father's heavenly abode or impersonal Brahman.
Vissnu-tattva, vaikuntha and Goloka are not described.

sridatta1 · Joined: 03 Aug 2005 Posts: 652 Location: india

Radian wrote: I HAVE STUDIED THIS THEORY THAT LORD KRISHNA AND JESUS CRIST IS THE SAME PERSON REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE HOLD BIBLE SAY ABOUT JESUS CRIST.MY MOTHER SAYS THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF LORD KRISHNA AND I BELEIVE THIS BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK AT THE NAMES KRISHNA AND CRIST IT ALMOST PRONUNSE THE SAME.IN THE GITA LORD KRISHNA SAY'S 'THAT PEOPLE WHO WORSHIP OTHER GODS ACTUALLY WORSHIP ME BUT THEY DO SO IN A WRONG WAY'.

WHAT DO YOU THINK.

Comparison Of Jesus-Krishna Preachings

The Divine preaching of Holy Jesus is the top most Gospel in the world and touches the climax of the truth. For example Holy Krishna says in Gita that one should withdraw himself from the family bonds slowly like a tortoise withdrawing its limbs (Kurmo ngaaneeva). The tradition of Datta is to cut the family bonds by the Sword of Knowledge as per Gita (Jnanaasi natmanah).

But Holy Jesus says that one should hate these family bonds to become His disciple. Cutting the bond is Zero. Existing in the bond is Plus and hating the bond is Minus. Zero is near to Plus and Minus is very far. So if you cut the bond it may form again. But if you hate the bond the bond will never be formed so that the bond with the Lord alone is eternal.

See the preaching of Lord Jesus with impartial attitude and without conservatism. After all a diamond is diamond whether it is foreign diamond or Indian diamond. Thus Holy Jesus is the king of all the divine preachers. He is like the Sun from whom these divine sentences radiate like rays.

Holy Bible speaks about the ever-lasting fire and that the souls have no rebirth. Hindu scriptures say that the soul has rebirth. Both these can be convinced and co-related. The condemned souls enter the everlasting fire, which means that these souls take the births as animals, birds, worms etc, which are like the fire due to the continuous agony. The word “everlasting” means that once the soul enters into the cycle of these births the soul will never come back to the human birth. The rebirth as a human being as told in the Hindu scriptures can be again co-related with the Holy Bible.

Holy Jesus says that the Kingdom of God is extended into this world. The meaning of this is that whenever God comes in human form to stay with us (Immanuel), the disciples of the Lord will be staying in this divine Kingdom on the throwns equally with the Lord. This means the servants of the Lord will take rebirth as human beings and will be preaching here and they will be respected like God.

For Ex: The Holy Pope is given the status of God. The Holy Pope and other such top most Bishops and pious Fathers who are indulged in the propagation of the knowledge will get the status of God here itself in this world. Thus, the inner sense is the same in all the scriptures, which is spoken in different ways. The ways are different but the real essence is the same.

The aim of human life is to achieve the grace that is the love of God. Even if you earn more money you are not carrying it after death. Very little money is sufficient to eat and drink which the animals and the birds are also doing even without money. If the aim of the money is only eating, drinking and enjoying, you will be born as animal or bird or worm in the next birth.

If your file is opened in the upper world you will not get definitely the human birth. When you serve the Lord in this world when He comes in the human form then only you can get human birth without any enquiry in order to serve the Lord when the Lord reincarnates. You must recognize the Lord by His knowledge, because Veda says that knowledge is Brahman.

Only miracles are not the signs since demons also performed miracles. Gita says that the Lord comes down in human form (Maanusheem tanu masritam). Gita also says that it is very difficult to worship formless (Avyaktahi). Gita also says that if one worships the inert statue, he will be born as a stone (Bhutejya yanti Bhutani).

So you must serve the Lord by doing practical service which consists of 1) Sacrifice of work 2) Sacrifice of fruit of work (money), which is also a form of work. The Sacrifice must be to the full extent. When a beggar gives one rupee that is greater than one lakh given by a multi lakhier because the beggar has sacrificed what ever he possessed. Holy Jesus appreciated one old lady who donated whatever she possessed, as the highest divine soul.

Radian · Joined: 28 Jun 2005 Posts: 19 Location: NEW YORK , USA

THE HOLY BIBLE WAS MANIPULATED IN THE 16th CENTURY

sridatta1 · Joined: 03 Aug 2005 Posts: 652 Location: india

Radian wrote: THE HOLY BIBLE WAS MANIPULATED IN THE 16th CENTURY

veda as reference

There are several religions and there are several scriptures corresponding to these religions. We must fix a scripture as the primary standard so that other scriptures can be standardized with reference to that. The other scripture also becomes standard with reference to which some other scripture can be also standardized. This is called as the process of standardization in Science.

Such a primary standard can be the Veda. I know immediately the colours of your faces will change. Immediately you will blame Me that I am not the preacher of Universal Religion. You will misunderstand Me as the preacher of Hinduism in guise. This situation will arise even if I take the scripture of some other religion also as the primary standard. The misunderstanding is inevitable and unavoidable.

I have to take one scripture of some religion and I have to be subjected to the criticism. Therefore, I ignore the criticism. I know what I am in My inner consciousness. My inner self is the real witness as long as I am the preacher of Universal Religion to My inner self, I need not fear for any external criticism from any angle.

The reason for selecting Veda as the primary standard is that even today the Veda is being preserved by oral recitation with the help of thousands of families. If you go to older and older times millions of families were reciting Veda just to preserve it from any type of intrusions or deletions. In Indian spiritual field there are several branches of philosophy who fight with each other orally.

For all these branches, Veda is the standard text. Such situation never existed in any religion in this world and does not exist even today. Even today different schools of philosophy in Hinduism fight with each other and all of them quote the same Veda. Such competition was and is unique in Hinduism. In such competitive atmosphere pollution of Veda is impossible.

If any word is added or deleted, immediately the other schools will shout because they fear that in such case Veda may support a particular branch of philosophy due to the possibility of a new interpretation for a new sentence. Leave the past. Tell Me frankly whether such situation exists in any religion in this world even today. This is the main reason why I have selected Veda as the primary standard. The diversity in Hinduism has done lot of good in this direction.

The sanctity of the scripture is well protected. In the olden days the books were in the form of written scripts of palm leaves. Printing was not there. Therefore, a very few scripts were only present. In such case it was very easy to introduce a new palm leaf or to remove an older palm leaf because hardly one or two scripts were present in a very large region.

Except this one reason there is no any other reason for Me to favour Veda but you need not worry that the scriptures of other religions have to be judged with reference to Veda only. Fortunately, all the scriptures of all the religions agree with Veda. The primary standard is useful in very few places where there is disagreement. Even that disagreement arises only from the misinterpretation of the statement. If the correct interpretation is given all the statements are perfectly coinciding with Veda.

Moreover, one can decide the final version of any concept based on the logical analysis. If the logical analysis fails, then mere Veda need not be taken as authority. If the logic disagrees you can reject any scripture including Veda. Therefore, Veda along with the logical analysis only stands as a primary standard. When you are convinced logically about a concept and when such concept is found in Veda, then only the concept is authorised.

Therefore, I am not rubbing Veda on any head without the logical analysis. Therefore, one need not doubt about the fanatic. The primary standard means the original word of God heard directly. But when other scriptures are perfectly in agreement with such word where is the question of fanatic? Every scripture becomes the word of God.

This point supports the Universal Religion, which says that the single God delivered the scriptures of all the religions. When the author is one and the same how can there be difference between the scriptures? If there is any difference it is only by your misinterpretation. Therefore, primary standard is only for convenience but not for fanatic.

Radian · Joined: 28 Jun 2005 Posts: 19 Location: NEW YORK , USA

SCIENCE AND RELIGION DOES NOT MIX

Radian · Joined: 28 Jun 2005 Posts: 19 Location: NEW YORK , USA

There is only one race, the race of humanity;
There is only one language, the language of the heart;
There is only one religion, the religion of love;
There is only one God and He is omnipresent." -SAI BABA

vijayakrishnan · Joined: 21 Sep 2006 Posts: 6

Hare Krishna

All glories to Srila Prabhupada

ekam sastram devaki-putra-gitam
eko devo devaki-putra eva
eko mantras tasya namani yani
karmapy ekam tasya devasya seva

In the present day, people are very much eager to have one scripture, one god, one religion, and one occupation. Therefore, ekam sastram devaki-putra-gitam: let there be one scripture for the whole world-Bhagavad gita. eko devo devaki-putra eva:let there be one god for the whole world-Sri Krishna. eko mantras tasya namani yani:and one hymn, one mantra, one prayer-Chanting of his name:Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.karmapy ekam tasya devasya seva:and let there be one work only-the service of the supreme personality of Godhead.

So, the Supreme personality of godhead is Lord Sri Krishna and all other Devaas, gandharvas, kinaras, kimpurusas are the servant of the Lord Sri krishna.Above said verse is been sited from Bhagvad Gita as it is Introduction By Srila Prabhupad.and this is been actually said by Lord Shiva to Srimathi Parvati.

Hare Krishna

digital_dasa · Joined: 21 Oct 2006 Posts: 4 Location: maya nagri

radian u r absolutely right jesus is the son of krishna , as krishna says that any work devoted to humanity is devoted to me , and thus jesus became a true vaishnva ,and vaishnva's are the son of lord krishna

chipoffhteoldblock · Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 10:12 pm Post subject:

And let's not get Jesus mixed up with Christianity. 8)

sridatta1 · Joined: 03 Aug 2005 Posts: 652 Location: india

Radian wrote: I HAVE STUDIED THIS THEORY THAT LORD KRISHNA AND JESUS CRIST IS THE SAME PERSON REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE HOLD BIBLE SAY ABOUT JESUS CRIST.MY MOTHER SAYS THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF LORD KRISHNA AND I BELEIVE THIS BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK AT THE NAMES KRISHNA AND CRIST IT ALMOST PRONUNSE THE SAME.IN THE GITA LORD KRISHNA SAY'S 'THAT PEOPLE WHO WORSHIP OTHER GODS ACTUALLY WORSHIP ME BUT THEY DO SO IN A WRONG WAY'.

WHAT DO YOU THINK.

Krishna and Jesus are like two shirts of the same person with different colours.
If you are converting your religion just for the sake of your liking to Jesus, there is no objection, because liking has no reason. But if your conversion is based on repulsion to Krishna, I will not agree to it. Similarly, if a Christian is converted to become Hindu due to liking on Krishna, I have no objection. But his conversion should not be due to repulsion to Jesus. Same God exists in Krishna and Jesus. Krishna and Jesus are like two shirts of the same person with different colours

AhimsaJack · Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 6 Location: New york state

All of your posts are very thoughtful and enlightening. With me, however, I accept Sri Krishna and Lord Jesus as the same. There is no "reason" why I believe this , but rather a feeling of the heart.

All praise to both Krishna and Jesus, because they are each God incarnate.

Shanti

Jack

judas · Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 16

chipoffhteoldblock wrote: And let's not get Jesus mixed up with Christianity. 8)
actually..lets not get Christianity mixed-up with the demons that claim to worship Jesus. because Christianity is the process of worshiping Jesus and the Lord. The words "Christian" and "Christianity" don't belong to the demons, do they ?

judas · Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 16

AhimsaJack wrote: All of your posts are very thoughtful and enlightening. With me, however, I accept Sri Krishna and Lord Jesus as the same. There is no "reason" why I believe this , but rather a feeling of the heart.

All praise to both Krishna and Jesus, because they are each God incarnate.

Shanti

Jack

sorry you're wrong..Jesus is Jesus and Krsna is Krsna.
Jesus is the devotee (son) and Krsna is the supreme Lord.
Lord Jesus taught us to pray...."OUR Father who art in Heaven"
note "OUR Father".... Achinya bheda bheda...the same in quality but NOT in quantity. This is the real truth and as usual you are speculating and getting it wrong. Please read the books of Srila Prabhupada and get youself the proper conception. And become eternally happy.
Accepting the Lord and the devotee as the same person is very offensive to the Lord.
Jaya Sri Sri Guru & Gauranga

Ratnesh · Joined: 06 Sep 2007 Posts: 8

No, Jesus never told that he is God. And even most of the Jesus follower strongly believe that he is son of God NOT the God.

In Bhagvad Gita Krishna told that he is the supreme personality of godhead.

Where is the question arise that Krishna & Jesus are same? Can Father & son be the same?

Another point is that Christianity believe that God has no form, if son of the god (Jesus) has form then father (supreme personality of god head) also has the form.