Lord Krishna Forum - Krishna Talk

bhaktabob · Joined: 16 Oct 2005 Posts: 8

At this juncture I felt compelled to jump in. I have long felt that it only makes sense to follow the original books. It was clealy a directive from Srila Prabhupada and if we can't follow only the directives we find convienient. My question is, if the GBC gurus are bogus, then who can do legit initiations?

bhaktabob · Joined: 16 Oct 2005 Posts: 8

Hare Krishna!

Thanks for your response. I should clarify that I wasn't asking rhetorically, I really am puzzled. I have been an "at home" devotee for years-having been turned of by the politics and "biz" of most temples i've been to.

Nonetheless, I respect your views and thoughts and the sensitivity to this topic yoou have expressed. You are, of course, correct. So liittle time and so much Krishna!!!!

vespertine212 · Joined: 19 Oct 2005 Posts: 42

To answer the original question:

Don't worry about all of this irritating discussion about gurus and ISKCON. It's a meaningless distraction from real spiritual life.

Krishna says to always remember Him, and to fully surrender to Him (BG 18.65-66). Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu taught His followers to do this in an astonishing and unprecidented way.

Follow the devotees of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, headed by Srila Rupa Goswami and Srila Raghunatha das Goswami. Anyone who can teach you how to surrender in their line is automatically the best teacher of Bhagavad Gita.

HDG Srila Prabhupada has preached this widely. You should read his Gita. Whether it's this version or that version will make very little difference to anyone who is sincere, and interested in more than just bickering.

bhaktabob · Joined: 16 Oct 2005 Posts: 8

Thank you for the kind response. That has been my attitute through the years of reading and studying. Nonetheless, association with other devotees is good and I am discomforted with all the bickering that is ongoing. I gues I will have to see it as another diversion of this maya existence

vespertine212 · Joined: 19 Oct 2005 Posts: 42

Yes. And know that people that bicker over these things are not ideal association. Try to find good association that is steeped in the real substance of Krishna consciousness.

Damodar · Joined: 10 Dec 2005 Posts: 11

Aryasiddhanta Prabhu wrote: :oops: oh dear another one lacking in any kind of spiritual understanding,probably a student of the barking ** Damordar and hench lady Rukmini, man cop yourself on and study Srila Prabhupada's writings without the blindfold. :roll:

BOW WOW!

(having made my little joke, I shall stop barking, and simply chant Hare Krishna)

:lol:

BhaktaRay · Joined: 05 Dec 2005 Posts: 16

The guru issue has factionated ISKCON into three separate camps.
The "Prabhupada is the only bona fide diksa guru so far" camp.
The "Ritvik is the only way to get initiation" camp.
and of course ISKCON that follows the
"Multiple GBC-appointed Acaryas" camp.
It is unfortunate that devotees are literally at each others' throats on this issue. It makes it really hard to get association without committing to one of these doctrines and frequenting the appropriate asramas.
Regardless of camps, factions and schools of thought there is still guru, sadhu and sastra, not to mention the guru in the heart, Caitya guru.
Srila Prabhupada is my first and foremost siksa guru. Nobody should argue with that. He has stipulated the qualifications of a diksa guru in a number of places, namely , that he be maha-bhagavata, uttama-adhikari.
It makes sense that the initiating guru that will take one back to Godhead will have already made the journey, which means he must be fully a self-realized devotee of Lord Krsna.

In any event nobody, but nobody can coerce a Vaisnava into taking initiation. That is a very dangerous practice.

As far as the idea that chanting has no benefit unless one is initiated, that is bogus. In the First Canto, First Chapter Text 14 of the Srimad Bhagavatam

âpannah samsritim ghorâm

yan-nâma vivas'o grinan

tatah sadyo vimucyeta

yad bibheti svayam bhayam

âpannah--being entangled; samsritim--in the hurdle of birth and death; ghorâm--too complicated; yat--what; nâma--the absolute name; vivas'ah--unconsciously; grinan--chanting; tatah--from that; sadyah--at once; vimucyeta--gets freedom; yat--that which; bibheti--fears; svayam--personally; bhayam--fear itself.

TRANSLATION

Living beings who are entangled in the complicated meshes of birth and death can be freed immediately by even unconsciously chanting the holy name of Krishna, which is feared by fear personified.

The word 'sadya' means 'at once'. So 'sadyo vimucyeta' means 'freed at once'. Also 'vivasah grinan' means 'unconsciously chanting'.
This is a powerful and straightforward sloka and refutes any idea that there are mulitple conditions on the efficacy of the Holy Name.

honeyflowerservant · Joined: 03 Oct 2005 Posts: 76

bhaktabob wrote: At this juncture I felt compelled to jump in. I have long felt that it only makes sense to follow the original books. It was clealy a directive from Srila Prabhupada and if we can't follow only the directives we find convienient. My question is, if the GBC gurus are bogus, then who can do legit initiations?
Quote:
Los Angeles
31 January, 1969 69-01-31 (to Hrsikesa) [TEXT MISSING] letter of January 9, 1969, I suspect that you have interest in taking instruction from some siksa guru, but in this connection, because you are my disciple and I think, a sincere soul, it is my duty to refer you to someone who is competent to act as siksa guru. This Bon Maharaja, perhaps you do not know, has been rejected by Guru Maharaja. So I cannot recommend him as siksa guru. I think that he has no actual spiritual asset. For spiritual advancement of life, we must go to one who is actually practicing spiritual life; not to some head of a mundane institution, not to one who has offended his Spiritual Master in so many ways. I do not wish to go into all details here, but I must inform you that this Bon Maharaja may be considered as a black snake, and at the time of His Disappearance, my Guru Maharaja did not even wish to have him in His presence due to the character of this Bon Maharaja. So if you are actually serious to take instructions from a siksa guru, I can refer you to one who is most highly competent of all my god-brothers. This is B.R. Sridhara Maharaja, whom I consider to be even my siksa guru, so what to speak of the benefit that you can have from his association. He is living in Navadvipa, and if you like, I can give you letter of introduction as well as I will send him letter to allow you to stay there with him. So if you and Acyutananda are not lost to the poison of Bon Maharaja, and are still serious about advancement of your spiritual life, I will advise you to go to Sridhara Maharaja. Or else I do not know what will save you. So my advice to you both is that you immediately leave the unhealthy and envious association of Bon Maharaja and either proceed to Germany as I have instructed you, or at least go to someone who will be competent to act as sisksha guru. This is Sridhara Maharaja. When I was in India, Acyutananda, Ramanuga, and myself, with others, lived with Sridhara Maharaja, so Acyutananda knows him very well. He spared a big house for us and if both of you go there now, it will be very good for your spiritual benefit. Then I will feel that you are safe. Besides that, if you wish to live in India, you can make arrangements for this house so that other of your god-brothers may go there in the future. Just on the other side of the Ganges there is Mayapur, and you can occasionally or every week go there and learn Bengali and Sanskrit if it is your desire. All facilities are there. Sridhara Maharaja is a very good English scholar and he can talk with you very nicely in English. The room in Vrindaban where you are residing may also be kept so that it may be utilized when necessary. But so far as I am concerned, I am becoming older and older, and my life may be finished at any moment. As I have got my permanent residence in America, it is indication of Krishna that I shall live here to organize this movement to the best possible extent. If I sometimes go out of this country, I will go to Europe only and again come back. So, practically I have decided not to go to India anymore. In case I suddenly meet my death, then I shall make my will how to deal with my body later on. So don't be carried away by whims. It is my duty to save you. Leave Vrindaban, live peacefully with Sridhara Maharaja, if you do not wish to go to Germany, and thereby you will be spiritually enlightened. Please inform me immediately regarding what you have decided.
HDG A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, 31 January, 1969

P.S. HDG Srila Sridhar Maharaj selected HDG Srila Govinda Maharaja as his successor. HDG Srila Prabhupada also described Srila Govinda Maharaj as his dearmost son.

i have no wish to be political or sectarian, there are many great souls in ISKCON who can help us with our spiritual lives, as Srila Prabhupada said, "everything is in my books" and also "there is no need to look outside ISKCON". Just thought i'd quote this letter in repsonse to your very good question. i personally took Prabhupada's advice, and i'm very glad i did. And i also agreee with Rukmini-Devi dasi's view, that it's better to forget all the politics, and remember Krishna. She is a diciple of Srila Prabhupada and she always makes sense, she gives good council and should be respected by us all.

All Glories to Sri Sri Guru and Gauranga!

hope this was of some help to you, they are Prabhupada's words, which are perfect. Keep chanting, Hari bol!

rakeshsingh2 · Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Posts: 7

When Guru Prabhupad was alive that time there was no need to go out of ISKCON. But this statement is no more valid for ISKCON now a days.

Prabhupad said that : No add, No delete, No change in his version of books at any cost. But ISKCON edited (modified) almost all the books written by Prabhupad many times and for some of the things the actual meaning got changed entirely.

ISKCON think that even bhajan you must do their bhajans only. ISKCON will not encourage/support even if you do good bhajan in Hindi or any other language except Benglan.

Ratnesh · Joined: 06 Sep 2007 Posts: 8

rakeshsingh2 wrote: When Guru Prabhupad was alive that time there was no need to go out of ISKCON. But this statement is no more valid for ISKCON now a days.

Prabhupad said that : No add, No delete, No change in his version of books at any cost. But ISKCON edited (modified) almost all the books written by Prabhupad many times and for some of the things the actual meaning got changed entirely.

ISKCON think that even bhajan you must do their bhajans only. ISKCON will not encourage/support even if you do good bhajan in Hindi or any other language except Bengali.

Here is the free Bhagvad Gita available. Its in Hindi & one of the best translations, good font.

http://www.gitapress.org/books/gita/633/gita_arth1_100.pdf
http://www.gitapress.org/books/gita/633/gita_arth101_200.pdf
http://www.gitapress.org/books/gita/633/gita_arth201_256.pdf