Lord Krishna Forum - Krishna Talk

krishnakripa · Joined: 08 Jan 2005 Posts: 2

Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2005 7:58 pm Post subject: Guru of Kripalu Maharaj

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Dear devotees,

I have heard numerous times pravachans by the sannyasi preachers of Kriplau Maharaj and though I am a long-time follower of ISKCON, I must admit I was very impressed by their deep scriptural knowledge, sweet singing of bhajans and systematic preaching style.

However a couple of doubts do arise in my heart as I contemplate the life of Kripalu Maharaj as I read his official biography online. Krishna mentiones numerous times in the Gita the absolute need for a guru and an established sampradaya. I dont seem able to read anywhere that Kriplau Maharaj had a guru and some have told me that he is a nitya-siddha and so doesnt require a guru, something that doesnt particularly sit comfortable with me. Anyone knows more on this?

He appears to have been a contemporary of Srila Prabhupad, the founder of ISKCON at least in the 60s and 70s when Prabhupad was physically present. Anyone has heard what are Kripaluji Maharaj's opinions on Prabhupad, ISKCON and in general its root Gaudiya Vaisnava sampradaya?

Thanks
Hare Krsna!

Keerti · Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 1

Hello Devotees!!
I know you were questionning Maharaji, and his thoughts on ISKON, and Prabuphad. I am actaully fortunate enough to have Maharaji as my own Guru, and just spent time with in in Barsana Dham in Texas in May 2005. We look at Maharaji as an incartion of Krishna himself, and you will see this by actually being in his presence. Maharaji does not need a Guru, as he is a Guru of all Guru's, thus the name Jagad Guru was given to him. Maharaji only displays love, and divine Love to his followers, and especially Radha. Once he looks at you in your eyes, he pierces your heart with more devotion for Krishna.
Even though you follow ISKON, its pretty much the same as Maharaji. Your only goal is to love, and give your all to Krishna! :)

Badri · Joined: 31 May 2005 Posts: 14 Location: Srirangam,India

Yes....Thats my goal. :D

Pankaja dasa · Joined: 05 Dec 2005 Posts: 60

Chaitanya Bhagavata
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura-

Although the sinful, hellish, Mayavadi brahma-rakshasa of Radha-desa introduced himself as Gopala to everyone, the devotees , rather than calling him Gopala, called him a false logician Mayavadi jackal. (“Those who cultivate material knowledge take birth as jackals in their next lives.”)

Within a hundred years after the disappearance of Mahaprabhu some foolish atheists rejected their gurus and advertised themselves as incarnations of the Supreme Lord.

Please refer to where it says the devotees. No Devotee will accept your statement.

--
http://www.krsnaconsciousness.org/Gauranga/Zip/Chaitanya-Bhagavata-nvf.zip
Vraja-press The purports of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura illuminate the text, reveal the essence of pure devotional service, and reject that which is not in strict accordance with the line of Rupa Gosvami.

..and translation of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura's chapter summaries and purports. [They were Originally in Bengali] Done by Disicples of Srila Prabhupada!

varadaraja sharma · Joined: 31 Mar 2006 Posts: 53

Radhe Krishna

Pankajadasji, be polite in ur remarks. What u r supposed to oppose is the ideology of another person and not just personally insult someone. I am neither a member of ISKCON nor a member of Kripalu maharaj. If u desire to find differneces between them u can find a 100. If u desire to find similarities, u can find a 1000.

What is needed is Krishna Bhakthi
What is to be looked for is Krishna Bhakthi

all else howsoever important are of simply material and not of spiritual importance

Pankaja dasa · Joined: 05 Dec 2005 Posts: 60

varadaraja sharma wrote: Radhe Krishna

Pankajadasji, be polite in ur remarks. What u r supposed to oppose is the ideology of another person and not just personally insult someone. I am neither a member of ISKCON nor a member of Kripalu maharaj. If u desire to find differneces between them u can find a 100. If u desire to find similarities, u can find a 1000.

What is needed is Krishna Bhakthi
What is to be looked for is Krishna Bhakthi

all else howsoever important are of simply material and not of spiritual importance

No Guru = No Bhakti.

For this I has to say all those things. :roll:

varadaraja sharma · Joined: 31 Mar 2006 Posts: 53

Radhe Krishna,
Pankaja dasji, I had been to Brindavana and visited a few ashrams over there. I found two things common in almost all ashrams. one is positive and another is negative. Positive aspect - almost every ashram indulge in Krishna Bhakthi - albeit in their own style, custom & tradition. And the negative aspect quite common in almost all ashrams I found - Every sampradaya follower almost say that theirs is the bonafide and all else are malafide. As i told u in the outset, I am neither a member of ISKCON nor one of Kripaluji. But if I add up what I heard from the two of u I get a sorry resultant product none is bonafide. Note it, this is not my opinion. I equally rever both of u for what is good in ur ashrams. And I have points of differences in both of these ashrams. Neverthless, the points of differences I perceive against u or them does not distance me from them.

Krishna Bhakthi as different from shiva bhakthi or shaktha bhakthi or vedanta vichara - emphasises on rasika swabhava of a bhaktha.

Politeness is the premier most vaishnava lakshana

And Rasika Swabhava is the premier most ingredient of a krishna Bhaktha.

What is u see in kripalu satsanga is history and geography of them or u see them with ur tinted glasses of perceived philosophical moorings.

What I see in both of u is chemistry - the chemistry of Krishna Bhakthi - I very humbly feel - even to hear a name of lord hari atleast only once in a life time of a person - he should have been blessed by God . When I have salutations to this type of person, I can not imagine what sort of regard, I have for both of u people, who engage urself for much part of ur daily routine, in Krishna Bhakthi.

Yes, for one thing I agree that there are bogus gurus. I agree that they misguide their followers in the name of holy scriptures. Note here strongly, they misguide their followers with the help of great scriptures like Bhagavatham and Bhagavath gita.

But I very strongly believe in the power of Bhagavatham and Bhagavath gita. Although an X or Y guru may be bogus, his saadana vasthu, the holy scriptures are the purest. Although the guru misguides, I strongly very strongly believe that the power (Shrimad Bhagavathakyoyam Prathyaksha Krishna eva hi) that these scriptures have got would - inspite properly guide the innocent shishyas who out of ignorance took refuge of a malafide guru.

What u have to carefully note here is not whom a shishya has approached but in what he is indulging in. If he indulges in those activities which are permitted by shasthras, he would not be doomed by the incapacity of his malafide guru. But he would be elevated to the abode of God - inspite of this negative influence of bonafide guru - by the sheer association of himself with the holy scriptures.
Somewhere I got a collection of dos and donts prescribed - or allegedly prescribed - by the ISKCON - when they come across people of other sampradaya. I would post them in my next posting. Atleast ur attitude is different from this collection of dos and donts.

Radhe krishna

Pankaja dasa · Joined: 05 Dec 2005 Posts: 60

To tell my hostory, I came to Krishna by reading Bhagavad-gita by Prabhupada, before I saw Mahabharata on TV serial. When I read Bhagavad-gita as it is. My right eye flickered for 2 days [Good Luck sign]. Since then I have no been able to give up this 'Krishna'. I could have read Bhagavad-gita by any number of persons, anybody. But I read THIS version. Now I am not being funny with you nor will I lie. But slowly I am seeing that Prabhupada [whom I think people will rever as the person 'who gave people Krishna'. He has created or will in future a revolution, just like Jesus or Mohammed. This is a great time for us. Because we actually inside a time when there are recent publications of Bhagavad-gita and we have a good chance since we are here.

Now I don't know who is pure or anything, because I myself am not pure. The only thing I have to go on is 'Truth'. Because I find truth in Iskcon [I belong to Krishna Chaitanya Mission' and Prabhupada is my Guru whether I am IN Iskcon or not. Without Prabhupada I would NEVER x 1000000000 came to KC. !

I cannot very well force you, but in Iskcon you will find truths. But it's not a staright and narrow road indeed. You need to find who is doing it perfect. Very rare. The devotees whos serving His Guru 100% is perfect, even thought he may be inperfect, he is actually liberated. But the PURE devotee is very very very very rare. So our worship is always directed towards Prabhupada. This is going on in almost every matha [slowly but surely].

Please reply back if I missed. :)

varadaraja sharma · Joined: 31 Mar 2006 Posts: 53

Radhe Krsisha,

Pankajdasji, Radhe Krishna

It is good that u r attached to lord krishna

It is very good that u r in this effort as per the guidance of a guru.

Krishna Bhakthi movement is an ocean. In a ocean there are always waves. waves come one after the another. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was a very big wave of this ocean. Shri prabhupada was another wave. there were and are so many waves from this ocean.

Since u r in bhakthi, u were humble enough to admit that u r not a pure person. for that matter nobody is. but the nectar of krishna bhakthi gives u the courage to admit this truth. Further u told that u dont know who is pure or impure. another humble admission. this is further followed by the fact that u found truth in ISKCON.

My dear friend, to be honest, please understand that truth is a perception. whether it is science or spirituality truth is always a perception. One scientific theory until it is disproved by another scientist remains the truth. But in spirituality there is no question of disproof. The basic spiritual philosophies like Advaita, Vishishtadwaita and Dwaita were debated hundreds of time and so many scholars have defeated so many other scholars. Note it clearly. I have said that scholars have defeated scholars. I have not said scholars have defeated philosophy. In Shankaracharya's time he has defeated many budhist scholars. But Budhism is still there. What is true for me and u is not necessarily true for a budhist. cause his yardstick and logic are different. u and me are veda based. they are not

then how about groups under the same umbrella of vedas.

u told about Bhagavat gita as it is written by Shri Prabhupada. To be honest, I tell u so far I have not read any commentary on Bhagavath Gita written by any sant.

Still I strongly believe that bhashyas written by Shankaracharya, ramanujacharya and madwacharya were also Bhagavath gita as it is and they were not injections of their philosophies. For that matter so many other great souls like Gnanadev, Gopala Krshna Gokale and many people written commentaries on Bhagavath gita. Not one commentary is an injection. They are Bhagavath gita as it is for those who have written them and for those who follow them. This is again a truth.

I give a quote from a scripture

"Acharyeshvapi sarveshu taratamyam vina kalau
Shudham Bhagavatham Dharmam Jagraha"

this means in the times of kali, dont see the differences in philosophies of great acharyas which have many differences but see the common thread in all philosophies viz., the Bhagavatha Dharmam, in spite of these differences in philosophies.

the person who wrote about Kripalu maharaj, I love krishna said that he was Jagatguru and lord krishna himself.

For that matter even Shankaracharya did not call himself Jagatguru. A good lot of great souls called him Jagatguru. For shri. I love krishna shri kripalu maharaj may be jagatguru. for me he is one among many gurus who preach krishna bhakthi.
then he said he is lord krishna. that is his samskaram.

Scriptures say

Gurur Brahma gurur vishnu gurur devo maheshwaraha
guru sakshath param brahma tasmay shri gurave namaha

A perfect shishya sees the holy trinity in his guru. It is from this angle i view what is said by ilovekrishna. For that matter out of scriptural guidance every shishya view his guru as lord himself.

coming to ur verdict that he is not guru at all.

i am sorry to say this pankaj.

i do not find any basis on this. this is only bias.

honestly u tell me have u gone through even a piece of couplets penned by shri krpalu maharaj. Shri ilovekrishna have listed a good lot of works penned by maharaj. I have not gone through even a single one of them to be honest. with the same honesty i admit that having not even knowing what a person has said, it is only out of bias or prejudic or heresay u come to an opinion that kripalu maharaj is not guru.

if u dont agree with what is written in his works, study them dispute them.

with out making any basis for ur comment, if u simply comment, i am sorry it is simply a political statement.

I dont know abut bhavath gita

In Bhagavatham i have read about "Bhagavathas"

They are defined as "Shantaha samadarshinaha"

one should be with peace of mind and be loving.

to be humble is a virtue.

swadosha parichayam is better than paradosha nirnayam.

pinpointing at another is not a virtue

degrading other that to without basis i am sorry is not a virtue of a sadhu.

if I have written any thing wrong kindly let me know

Radhe Krishna.

Pankaja dasa · Joined: 05 Dec 2005 Posts: 60

Your right we shouldn't try to find fault in others. Rather we should try to see faults in ourselves. Kripaluji Maharaja is very devoted to Krishna in his own way. And I wish him luck.

But in India the parampara system has been followed since time immerial. Kripaluji sees it fit to not follow such a Sampradaya. And as you know I belong to Gaudiya Vaishnava Sampradaya, we don't consider the people who think 'they are God' devotees of the Lord. They have mixed Bhakti I hope you understand my point of view. Next time I will say it with less anger. Please forgive me.

You said you have never read Bhagavad-gita. I beg you to reconsider. It is the abc of knowledge. Reading it will open up many doors for you.

If you don't know where to read it. I made a site for people such as yourself: http://www.krishnamedia.org/ebooks/SongofGod.htm

I am no expert in this science. But the message of Lord Krishna has to be read to find out what is the truth. Krishna says you must accept a Guru to know Him. And He says when He comes etc. We as humans love to speculate on the Lords words. That is why so many people go away from God. But in this Ages Prabhupada has given this Bhagavad-gita which is very easy to understand in plain English. For the Scholers or Scientists.

Unless we follow this message [accepting Guru, in Parampara] After all Krishna came to re-establish the broken Parampara System. So unless you goto this same Parampara how will you know it's message? It's not possible. Please read I hope you do.

Your servant
Pankaja dasa[/url]

varadaraja sharma · Joined: 31 Mar 2006 Posts: 53

Radhe Krishna,

Pankaj dasji, Radhe Krishna

I dont know whether kripalu maharaj calls himself god or not. As such being not knowledgeable about the facts, it would be wrong on my part to comment upon it. As a follower of scriptures, i too cant digest the fact if a person claims himself as god. if u have read carefully what i said - i plainly said - a shishya should right royally - as instructed in scriptures should consider his guru as personification of god. I quoted the shloka for that also.

Then about the parampara. For this also again i should quote back what i said :

"Acharyeshvapi sarveshu taratamyam vina kalau
Shudham Bhagavatham Dharmam Jagraha"

In the age of kali, dont dwell upon differences in the philosophies of different acharyas, which are by nature so, but see the common aspect preached by all acharyas, viz., the "Bhagavatha Dharmam" which is common in all sampradayas in spite of the philosophical differences of acharyas.

Regarding parampara also I am so sorry to state this. As I told u i visited many ashrams in Brindavan and what I found. The obsession of ashramaites about their paramparas - ( I was about to use a phrasology which may be offensive - god saved me from this unsavoury indulgence) - I felt ( God forgive me if i am wrong) their parampara bhakthi was superior to krishna bhakthi. As a person belonging to other sampradaya, what I wished to observe was how beautifully they worship lord krishna in their own parampara - in their own tradition - but what I got in return was - first how all other traditions in and around vraja - malafide - and how their ashram was bonafide - By nature I see only the krishna bhakthi in another krishna bhaktha i interact with and try to learn if i can improve upon myself. So these disputes about - bonafide - malafide - i am exhausted - i just came out from those places in silence. It does not mean I came across only such type of people. Ofcourse in many places they also eagerly shared how i worship and shared how they worship. But these experiences are much much less for me.

I have read so many debates about paramparas in many other sites like gaudiyadiscussions, krishnapremonmada etc., - many people discussed in these sites with evangelical bitterness about the superiority of their sampradaya and inferiority about other sampradayas.

But in all these debates - one aspect of conspicuously and sorrowfully missing - that is the most beautiful ever sweet avyaja prema sagara shri krishna. what i found in all those debates was the awful knowledge of those debaters and the depth of their studies. but not krishna. for krishna cant be find where there is brain but where there is heart.

this is amply demonstrated in Shrimad Bhagavatha.

Lord krishna's kainkaryapara - Shri Udhava found that krishna although was outwardly happy was internally monotonously thinking of something. One day he asked krishna what was the matter. The lord shared that he was always thinking of Gopis of Vraja who were his nirvyaja bhakthas and he said he always think of them and contemplating about the fact that the gopis are suffering from his farness. Udhava told that he would go to vraja and shower them with the knowledge of philosophy and give them peace of mind. Udhava reached vraja. Interacted with gopis. the interaction is rendered in pranaya geetha. "Madhupa kithava bando"in Bhagavatha purana. After that rather than giving sermon, he tells (rather i feel yells)

"Vande nanda vraja sthreenam pada renumabhikshnasaha"

meaning he cries that i would be a better kainkaryapara of lord if i could get the prasad of the gopis charanaduli. When he came back to lord - Udhava wept and paid his obeisance at the feet of lord.

my dear krishna bhaktha friend, I humbly submit to u that the debates about the parampara and sampradaya are submerged in history which itself is already submerged in dispute. Even if a boy fell from the steps of his house an hour back, there would be many many versons as to how he fell each contradicting the other. Then the events of history which happened hundreds of years back have hundreds of versions. Ofcourse these may be of interest to historians or people who want to pursue knowledge on philosophy. Ofcourse i still do not find fault with these attitudes. It is their interest and they are pursuing it. If u want philosophy - so the lord gives u. If u want history - so the lord gives u - if u want the parampara so the lord gives u . but if u want bakthi - god does grant u this boon - but not so easily like other things - cause this is more precious than all else.

I dont know whether u have read the life and times of nivruthi, gnanadeva, sopana, mukthabai, kabir, rahim, raskan who albeit not belonging to any sampradaya - still loved god - and believed to have reached his abode.

All this my dear friend - i have not written - that u deviate from ur sampradaya. Rather I would be very happy that u strongly get attached to ur sampradaya.
cause I view every sampradaya like many flower pots in the garden of krishna bhakthi each giving different types of fragrance.

neither I find anything wrong if one is obsessed with sampradaya. i find it as a guna and not as a dosha. Even finding differences in other sampradayas from one's own i can digest it since it boosts one's attachement to one's sampradya.

But degrading another sampradaya or looking down upon another sampradaya, my friend, although I would never say don't indulge in it - I for my love of lord would surely say that - i can't digest that.

"Pathithaha skalithascharthaha kshuthvava vivasho bruvan
haraye nama ityuchaihi muchyate sarva patakath"

in twelfth adyaya of twelfth skanda of Shrimad Bhagavatha, it is said that however fallen a soul may be - if he simply chants haraye namaha - he would be absolved of all his sins.

I always try to be humble - my dear friend - but had i said anything which - even if unintentionally could hurt another krishna bhaktha - i have no hesitation to render my unconditional apology.

may the sweet krishna bless me and all with krishna bhakthi.

Radhe Krishna

varadaraja sharma · Joined: 31 Mar 2006 Posts: 53

Radhe Krishna,

Pankaja dasji, Radhe krishna,

There was a mistake in the last posting. I gave the name of geetha as "Pranaya Geetha" . I beg ur pardon. It should have been "Bramara Geetha". In the vyaja of speaking to bramara, gopis are giving sandesha to Udhava. Every shloka in this geeta has three purports. That what gopis say to the Bramara (Honey bee); what they say to Udhava and what they convey to lord Krishna.

Regarding ur information about Bhagavath Gita. My friend, I highly rever Gita since these are the words of my lord. But my obsession with Shrimad Bhagavatham is so much so much - what can I say - i again and again and again and again wish to read this talk about this and hear about this.

Neverthless, when i am blessed surely i would go through gita.

Radhe Krishna

Pankaja dasa · Joined: 05 Dec 2005 Posts: 60

Jai sri Krishna!

http://www.krishnamedia.org/ebooks/Bg.zip 8)

Pankaja dasa · Joined: 05 Dec 2005 Posts: 60

From another forum:
Quote: He is the same "Jagatguru" who has been charged with rape. The case went to the Indian Supreme Court (!) and was referred back to the Nagpur Bench for re-trial. On April 1, 2006 the Nagpur Bench issued a warrant for his arrest!

In reff to Kripaluj Maharaja, who is meant to be Jagat Guru. No idea if it is true or not. But he dresses as a Sanyasi but has a Wife and 2 children who STAY yes, stay with him. I guess he must have mystic powers aquired from mixed Bhakti. But because he has no Guru, He doesn't realize what to do;. That is the result of having no Guru.

Hare Krishna, didn't want to put this here, but it will benefit others.

varadaraja sharma · Joined: 31 Mar 2006 Posts: 53

Radhe Krishna,

Pankaj Dasji, Radhe Krishna,

It was startling to read about ur revealetion. I basically belong to south India and I hope Shri Kripalu Maharaj stays put in Vraja Dham itself. Regarding mundane events, I read newspaper headlines only. To be honest, this is the first time I am hearing something in this way about him and what is said is without source. I do not know whether this is correct or not. In this kali yuga worst things happen everywhere.

Be it ashram of Kripaluji, Shankaracharya or even ISKCON for that matter. I read newspaper headlines of allegations of worst kind. But I have nothing to do with personalities. I am concerned about the content. If a few persons of ISKCON got mired in controversies, taking that as a basis, If I ignore ISKCON, it is not a looser. Rather I would be, since I would be not simply loosing ISKCON but my beloved contents like Haribhakthi Vilasam, Bhakthi Rasamrtha sindhu, Gopala Champu et al.
Sameway, although I have not read any works of Sri kripalu, since they are in Hindi (Which I dont know) - if there are contents - if they even if remotely help me there is nothing wrong.

By god's grace he has given me the guna of madhupam. Whereever i go whomever i meet, what i try to grasp - radhakrishna yugalam - Krishna bhakthi - like a madhupa takes only honey from flowers - .

and how about the power of Bhagavan Nama : Shukacharya says

"Kiratha hoonandhra pulinda pulkasaha
aabira kanka yavanaha khasadayaha
yenyecha paapa yadupashrayashrayaha
shudhyanthi tasmai prabha vishnave namaha"

The power of hari nama - it has such power that it cleanses any fallen soul.

Pardon me rather than talking the bhagavath gunaanubhavam I wastely talked about mundane things. let me atleast conclude on a sweet parable.

Hanuman after meeting seetha at ashokavana submitted with humbleness the choodamani given by jaganmaatha. The prabhu with tears in his eyes took it from hanuman. Embracing Hanuman, Prabhu said, "Hanuman, the sort of Upakaara u have provided me - I dont know how to repay it. The help u have rendered me - whatever boon I give u would be lesser compared to the help u hav rendered.I cant get a kainkaryapara like u."
Hanuman replied back with tears in his eyes. Prabhu, if u just give instruction - u would get thousands more kainkaryaparaas who are more capable than me - But can I cant get another prabhu like u.

My dear friend, if anyone like to discuss about controversies, may be one can write hundreds of pages. But to discuss about Bhagavath gunaanubhavam crores of pages would be insufficient.

Could we discuss about the chemistry of bhakthi rather than about history of preachers. cause history is full of bitter facts and one would simply end up with throwing mud on each other in the end gaining nothing. But the discussion on God would make both the parties beneficial.

Radhe Krishna